Brodie Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 Is Addington starting to struggle for horses to race like Auckland has been?? Friday nights meeting has only 79 nominations for the 10 races which is very low numbers! There is a meeting as well in Canterbury on Sunday but maybe it is starting to show that we have not enough horses in work i. Canterbury now to fill the fields for 2 Meetings a week? I do know from looking at the export lists that there are still heaps going to Ozzie, and most are race winners! Owners are really starting to feel the financial effects of the training costs etc. compared to what they are able to receive in stake money! The stake money on the face of it appears ok but if you factor in the costs of being able to race, then it is a pointless exercise if you think you are able to make it pay! Unfortunately there are several reasons why stake money has not kept up with the costs involved and unless these are rectified then harness racing is going to struggle . Was it last year that we had the BRAINSTORMING meetings between the harness participants but has there really been any improvements in the condition of the industry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Brodie said: Is Addington starting to struggle for horses to race like Auckland has been?? Friday nights meeting has only 79 nominations for the 10 races which is very low numbers! There is a meeting as well in Canterbury on Sunday but maybe it is starting to show that we have not enough horses in work i. Canterbury now to fill the fields for 2 Meetings a week? I do know from looking at the export lists that there are still heaps going to Ozzie, and most are race winners! Owners are really starting to feel the financial effects of the training costs etc. compared to what they are able to receive in stake money! The stake money on the face of it appears ok but if you factor in the costs of being able to race, then it is a pointless exercise if you think you are able to make it pay! Unfortunately there are several reasons why stake money has not kept up with the costs involved and unless these are rectified then harness racing is going to struggle . Was it last year that we had the BRAINSTORMING meetings between the harness participants but has there really been any improvements in the condition of the industry? Maybe Brodie its just there has been a gradual drop off in horse numbers in training all year round,and with meetings this time of year traditionally struggling for numbers anyway,thats where that trend will become more noticeable? Maybe the wet canterbury winter hasn't helped either. Edited August 22, 2022 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 31 minutes ago, the galah said: Maybe Brodie its just there has been a gradual drop off in horse numbers in training all year round,and with meetings this time of year traditionally struggling for numbers anyway,thats where that trend will become more noticeable? Maybe the wet canterbury winter hasn't helped either. Yeah no.s did use to drop off in Winter but with so much more racing nowadays it is probably the best time to be racing your horse unless it is very talented. Once the AllStar horses are back your chances of winning are reduced significantly. I believe that many owners are now saying to hell with racing a horse if it is not viable. If a decent offer comes in they are keen to take it with both hands and this is going to continue. New people have to be introduced to harness racing or it is going to continue to decline. People are not breeding as many horses as there used to be! Not enough new owners are coming in. Older trainers will give it away and it is very difficult for most young ones to be able to make a living out of training! Finally, the NZ TAB have far too many stupid restrictions on punters On harness racing that does not make it attractive enough to continue to introduce and retain the punter!!!!!!! Without the punting dollar on harness things are going to make it financially unviable for harness racing to thrive!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robalan Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 In addition Brodie, the new CEO of HRNZ are imposing many new requiements on owners and trainers, such as the code of conduct, the mandatory reporting of all medical procedures on horses and the mandatory notification of what happens to your horse when it is finished racing. To support the imposition of all these tasks he is emplyoying several additional staff members. This is paid for by reducing the amount of funds available for stakes which are unchanged from the levels of twenty years ago. Last one out please turn out the lights 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 24, 2022 Author Share Posted August 24, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Robalan said: In addition Brodie, the new CEO of HRNZ are imposing many new requiements on owners and trainers, such as the code of conduct, the mandatory reporting of all medical procedures on horses and the mandatory notification of what happens to your horse when it is finished racing. To support the imposition of all these tasks he is emplyoying several additional staff members. This is paid for by reducing the amount of funds available for stakes which are unchanged from the levels of twenty years ago. Last one out please turn out the lights Thanks for that Robalan, hadnt heard of this! Lunacy once again! What happens to the horse when it finishes racing? What a load of bollacks again! What has it got to do with HRNZ?????! Do dog and cat owners need to advise anyone what they have done with their pets? Bunch of Dickheads being paid by the actual workers!!! And yes you are correct stake money has not increased in decades! Edited August 24, 2022 by Brodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robalan Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 20 years ago when racing was at its height and before the introduction of computer processing HRNZ employed 10 people including the CEO but not including stipendiary stewards and racecourse detectives as they are now part of the racing integrity unit. Now the staff numbers are well over 25 and cimbing rapidly. What do all these people do? With an average salary of say $100,000 that is costing the industry $2,500,000 which is at least $1,500,000 more than it took to run the industry 20 years ago (no adjustment for inflation). In addition the HRNZ board members were volunteers and as such were not paid, now they all get at least $80,000 per annum. There are 8 board members therefore that is a cost of at least $640,000. Add this to the $2,500,000 for extra staff costs and there is an additional minimum amount of over $3million which should be available for stakes. Harness Racing is at it's lowest ebb and yet rather than cutting costs HRNZ are now spending more than ever 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 24, 2022 Author Share Posted August 24, 2022 58 minutes ago, Robalan said: 20 years ago when racing was at its height and before the introduction of computer processing HRNZ employed 10 people including the CEO but not including stipendiary stewards and racecourse detectives as they are now part of the racing integrity unit. Now the staff numbers are well over 25 and cimbing rapidly. What do all these people do? With an average salary of say $100,000 that is costing the industry $2,500,000 which is at least $1,500,000 more than it took to run the industry 20 years ago (no adjustment for inflation). In addition the HRNZ board members were volunteers and as such were not paid, now they all get at least $80,000 per annum. There are 8 board members therefore that is a cost of at least $640,000. Add this to the $2,500,000 for extra staff costs and there is an additional minimum amount of over $3million which should be available for stakes. Harness Racing is at it's lowest ebb and yet rather than cutting costs HRNZ are now spending more than ever Reality is that most do not do a lot! Never see much promotion to get people along to Addington, surely there could be at least some signage around Chch promoting harness and the hospitality there??? Why can’t they get articles on TV 1 or TV3 news with interesting bits as most of the crap they have on since Ardern came in is BS? Why hasnt HRNZ gone into bat for the restricted punters to the TAB as the way it is at the moment is costing them big dollars in lost revenue? Harness racing needs to wake up before there is not a product! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Brodie said: Reality is that most do not do a lot! Never see much promotion to get people along to Addington, surely there could be at least some signage around Chch promoting harness and the hospitality there??? Why can’t they get articles on TV 1 or TV3 news with interesting bits as most of the crap they have on since Ardern came in is BS? Why hasnt HRNZ gone into bat for the restricted punters to the TAB as the way it is at the moment is costing them big dollars in lost revenue? Harness racing needs to wake up before there is not a product! They could have made a leap to recruit the inspirational Mallard. But instead the lucky Irish have got him.😀 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unhinged Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 5 hours ago, Robalan said: 20 years ago when racing was at its height and before the introduction of computer processing HRNZ employed 10 people including the CEO but not including stipendiary stewards and racecourse detectives as they are now part of the racing integrity unit. Now the staff numbers are well over 25 and cimbing rapidly. What do all these people do? With an average salary of say $100,000 that is costing the industry $2,500,000 which is at least $1,500,000 more than it took to run the industry 20 years ago (no adjustment for inflation). In addition the HRNZ board members were volunteers and as such were not paid, now they all get at least $80,000 per annum. There are 8 board members therefore that is a cost of at least $640,000. Add this to the $2,500,000 for extra staff costs and there is an additional minimum amount of over $3million which should be available for stakes. Harness Racing is at it's lowest ebb and yet rather than cutting costs HRNZ are now spending more than ever Sorry to burst your bubble but board members at hrnz were paid about 20grand a year ago, I haven't got more recent info but wouldn't think it would of gone up since dye to covid etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 5 hours ago, Robalan said: 20 years ago when racing was at its height and before the introduction of computer processing HRNZ employed 10 people including the CEO but not including stipendiary stewards and racecourse detectives as they are now part of the racing integrity unit. Now the staff numbers are well over 25 and cimbing rapidly. What do all these people do? With an average salary of say $100,000 that is costing the industry $2,500,000 which is at least $1,500,000 more than it took to run the industry 20 years ago (no adjustment for inflation). In addition the HRNZ board members were volunteers and as such were not paid, now they all get at least $80,000 per annum. There are 8 board members therefore that is a cost of at least $640,000. Add this to the $2,500,000 for extra staff costs and there is an additional minimum amount of over $3million which should be available for stakes. Harness Racing is at it's lowest ebb and yet rather than cutting costs HRNZ are now spending more than ever I'm not saying you don't have a point. As to your figures.I see the proposed budget for 2021/2022 didn't have much change from the previous year.The main changes were Governance ,which board fees are part of,but not the sole contibutory factor, that increased by 50%.. $453,000 is budgeted for what was referred to as animal care/welfare. This appears to have been a new aspect, and was listed as being for the likes of rehoming programmes and support, horse traceability, operational costs of horse ambulance,etc. also they are spending $453,000 on promotion which apparently goes to things like senz radio.That used to come out of tab funds. Personally i think the animal care/welfare costs indicate there was a lack of funding of that area previously. There should be money spent on what they are going to spend it on for that.Its better to be pro active than reactive when it comes to those type of issues. I do wonder about the CEO and the boards ability to provide a unified message and direction that creates positive thoughts amongst the grass roots level. I don't think they have achieved that,or even come close. Sometimes it seems that they just say things to placate certain factions within the industry. Thats not real leadership,thats just weakness.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 4 hours ago, Brodie said: Reality is that most do not do a lot! Never see much promotion to get people along to Addington, surely there could be at least some signage around Chch promoting harness and the hospitality there??? Why can’t they get articles on TV 1 or TV3 news with interesting bits as most of the crap they have on since Ardern came in is BS? Why hasnt HRNZ gone into bat for the restricted punters to the TAB as the way it is at the moment is costing them big dollars in lost revenue? Harness racing needs to wake up before there is not a product! What is the future of the NZ cup? Some, on another struggling lightweight channel are suggesting the Race will overtake it as NZs most popular race. Let's hope not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unhinged Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 25 minutes ago, Ludwig said: What is the future of the NZ cup? Some, on another struggling lightweight channel are suggesting the Race will overtake it as NZs most popular race. Let's hope not. Tell them their Dreaming 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 24, 2022 Author Share Posted August 24, 2022 “The Race” over a mile at Cambridge is nothing more than a staged event for the corporates Doesnt attract new people into the industry by way of punters owners or trainers! It is just shuffling money from one big boy to another. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robalan Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Unhinged, i may be wrong on board members fees, but I was reliably informed that on average that $80,000 was the cost for each board member I'm pretty sure my staff cost figures are accurate though, just go to the Staff list on the HRNZ website and count them all, and more advertisements for new staff positions have been advertised lately 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 12 hours ago, Brodie said: “The Race” over a mile at Cambridge is nothing more than a staged event for the corporates Doesnt attract new people into the industry by way of punters owners or trainers! It is just shuffling money from one big boy to another. You've missed the mark with this mate. Not in the money. The Race is a race , as per any other race, but for the higher prizemoney ,so it attracted Overseas interest. How good is that !! fantastico... (Majestic Cruiser etc ) It does attract new people. Some of those corporates are new people involved. It attracts Huge New Interest IMO. You , I and hEAPS of others watched it. I even BET on it which I normally wouldn't. And you could buy a slot mate.? Of course New Owners are involved (for a day) that's what it's ALL About. Not sure you and Ludwig are understanding the Concept. Think of it as a Good thing for harness racing. Because it is , and might just keep the game going a bit longer. Next up >>> trotters slot race ? Well Done THE RACE !! (can't wait for the next one !!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 14 hours ago, Unhinged said: Tell them their Dreaming Darryl Kerrigan couldn't have said it any better 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 16 minutes ago, Gammalite said: You've missed the mark with this mate. Not in the money. The Race is a race , as per any other race, but for the higher prizemoney ,so it attracted Overseas interest. How good is that !! fantastico... (Majestic Cruiser etc ) It does attract new people. Some of those corporates are new people involved. It attracts Huge New Interest IMO. You , I and hEAPS of others watched it. I even BET on it which I normally wouldn't. And you could buy a slot mate.? Of course New Owners are involved (for a day) that's what it's ALL About. Not sure you and Ludwig are understanding the Concept. Think of it as a Good thing for harness racing. Because it is , and might just keep the game going a bit longer. Next up >>> trotters slot race ? Well Done THE RACE !! (can't wait for the next one !!) Your right,but i think brodie was meaning it only attracts new people for 1 day. Brodie taking a big picture approach was my interpretation. Nothing wrong with having The Race,but long term its benefits i think are minimal. I'm guessing it wont last too long as it won't be sustainable. Look at the jewels. That was a much better concept and didn't last long. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 3 hours ago, the galah said: Your right,but i think brodie was meaning it only attracts new people for 1 day. Brodie taking a big picture approach was my interpretation. Nothing wrong with having The Race,but long term its benefits i think are minimal. I'm guessing it wont last too long as it won't be sustainable. Look at the jewels. That was a much better concept and didn't last long. Ok I see, yes I imagine year round support is best/ needed. and The Race is possibly just a one day flirt for general public and only a handful would get some sort of on-going will to watch lol. The general harness racing in Brisbane is tame all year round except for a 3 week window in July when all the feature races are run over the 3 -4 weeks for the year. Nz still does it better , and has Cup week with some great racing at Addington. It used to be a feature per Month at Auckland . so you had 2 GREAT Meetings every month at Alexandra Park , with visiting horses always arriving for the Lead-up and then the Main event each Month. December = Messenger for 4 yearolds, January = Auckland Cup, February = Interdominion , March = GreatNorthern Derby, April = Nz Standardbred breeders Stakes, May = Rowe Cup, June = Nz Juvenile Championship, July = Oaks, August = well can't quite remember but am sure the Spring had great racing as well. All year round Good Stuff !!! ......yes i know this programming is slightly different now yes inded,,,,,'The Race' is just one day per year........... , (but so is Nz Cup? ) New innovations are great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 25, 2022 Author Share Posted August 25, 2022 Just looked at the fixed odds for Addington Friday night and seriously not a single gorse worth investing on the way that I invest! Small field, small odds, going to be a non investing night at the moment! What the NZ TAB need to do is bring the Power Plays out earlier and give them an option no. a d let punters offload. Just pathetic the way they only allow certain punters to net $30 on TOP 4 and Other account only options!!'!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 On 22/08/2022 at 8:42 AM, Brodie said: Is Addington starting to struggle for horses to race like Auckland has been?? Friday nights meeting has only 79 nominations for the 10 races which is very low numbers! There is a meeting as well in Canterbury on Sunday but maybe it is starting to show that we have not enough horses in work i. Canterbury now to fill the fields for 2 Meetings a week? I do know from looking at the export lists that there are still heaps going to Ozzie, and most are race winners! Owners are really starting to feel the financial effects of the training costs etc. compared to what they are able to receive in stake money! The stake money on the face of it appears ok but if you factor in the costs of being able to race, then it is a pointless exercise if you think you are able to make it pay! Unfortunately there are several reasons why stake money has not kept up with the costs involved and unless these are rectified then harness racing is going to struggle . Was it last year that we had the BRAINSTORMING meetings between the harness participants but has there really been any improvements in the condition of the industry? Yeah if you follow the export list it's getting longer and longer since the flights opened up again to Aussie... the scary part is the amount of unraced and young horses being exported even before qualifying, owners getting offers they can't refuse. Look today at that first starter 'Raupunga Lad' at Winton today, had a huge rap on him and will be interesting to see if the owner/breeder can resist the huge offers coming probably from Western Australia. I see Springbank Mason sold cheaply on Gavel not long ago, 1 win and you recoup the price, if horses of his quality are selling for under $10K the industry in fair dinkum in trouble. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Brodie said: Just looked at the fixed odds for Addington Friday night and seriously not a single gorse worth investing on the way that I invest! Small field, small odds, going to be a non investing night at the moment! What the NZ TAB need to do is bring the Power Plays out earlier and give them an option no. a d let punters offload. Just pathetic the way they only allow certain punters to net $30 on TOP 4 and Other account only options!!'!!!!!!!! mile racing better bet menangle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 8 hours ago, Rangatira said: couldn't have said it any better is this picture of you in your younger days HOOVER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unhinged Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 On 8/25/2022 at 6:46 AM, Robalan said: Unhinged, i may be wrong on board members fees, but I was reliably informed that on average that $80,000 was the cost for each board member I'm pretty sure my staff cost figures are accurate though, just go to the Staff list on the HRNZ website and count them all, and more advertisements for new staff positions have been advertised lately The overall cost to have a board member is possibly close to the figure you quote when you add up travel, accommodation etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 Use the rating system and spread the stakes relative to ratings - on average field days ( say Thursday & Sunday ) run races all grouped into ratings - no PBD handicaps - so as an example 35 up to next lowest rating is one race for 12 horses . No handicap. Stake $5 k , next race grouping of lowest rating stake $6k then next lowest grouping $7k The horse of around 35 rating owners/ trainers know they have a race in a like with field every week which they may win . These poor rating horses have raced 35 to 150 times and owners want to race so as long as they race like with like they will line up every week . Group bottom ratings bottom to top - the club goes the reverse so uses 35 ratings etc as just fillers in higher rating fields. All fields and program centralised at HRNZ with directive to use the rating system bottom to top up to say 45 or 50 rating then those poor fields will be filled every week. Horses can nominate for a rating race rather than non winner/maidan race . The lower class qualifier doesn’t want to race against high quality first starters who when 2 min at the trials . Then the higher rating field sits on top using top to lowest rating - some days there will be a hole to fill up by handicap but do not destroy the low rating like with like rating system races as there stakes are lower due to class of horse . They throw rating 35 in 3-4 races up to rating 50. Why not one race of 35-40 or 2 races then next week a drop back fills the hole and 2 winning horses go to rating 42 . I yo yo but the lower class horse owners what to race but if just stocking fillers they will be rehomed but more than likely disposed . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 17 hours ago, hunterthepunter said: is this picture of you in your younger days HOOVER 1997 Gone through a few zimmer frames since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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