3rd Telfer horse dies

[the galah]

11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

But you didn't suggest that did you?  You inferred that there was illegal activity happening.

You never do.  YOU just infer it.  But there is never any evidence!  Of course we then come back to your conspiracy bullshit that they must be using something that is undetectable.

There are treatments to increase the red blood cells to increase oxygen supply. I assume not all can be tested for or are illegal.Thats my thinking here if you want to understand my thinking.

One thing i have said previously about the telfer stable is they are very high achievers.But i have commented more than once on here that its a stable where their horses seem to have performances where you just scratch your head,realise you just have to ignore that run,and put the run down to the telfer factor. 

The reason i have said that before on here is because it happens. I just refer to it as the telfer factor in my records on horses performance. And it certainly doesn't relate to overtraining as those type of performances come out of the blue when the said horse is racing well.

 

[the galah]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why is it "dodgy"?

SAFE is coming after racing regardless.  

Come on chief,you must know that anyone who witnessed what has happened here would be left with an awful perception of the harness industry.

And if they had the knowledge that it has occurred multiple times within a short time frame and that people within the industry just look the other way,without any proper investigation, because it just happens to be the leading stable,then SAFE will and should target the racing industry.

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, the galah said:

There are treatments to increase the red blood cells to increase oxygen supply. I assume not all can be tested for or are illegal.Thats my thinking here if you want to understand my thinking.

Like what for example?

[Chief Stipe]

Just now, the galah said:

Come on chief,you must know that anyone who witnessed what has happened here would be left with an awful perception of the harness industry.

Training and racing a horse as an elite athlete will upset any woke person.  FFS - they'll want to ban mouth bits soon!!!!

As Tana Umaga once said to a Test Referee - 

 

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, the galah said:

And if they had the knowledge that it has occurred multiple times within a short time frame and that people within the industry just look the other way,without any proper investigation, because it just happens to be the leading stable,then SAFE will and should target the racing industry.

They target it anyway.  You are just bringing the industry down.  Do you actually support it?

[the galah]

6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Like what for example?

There is always new technology around ways to support better performance and recovery.Have you forgotten blood spinning being legal until they outlawed it a couple of years ago.

 

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

They target it anyway.  You are just bringing the industry down.  Do you actually support it?

That about sums up how you see things like this. If you suggest anything,even something as obvious as this, should be investigated then your not on team harness racing.I call that tunnel vision.

I've expressed my opinions enough on this subject so won't comment further on it.

[Robalan]

You know I can remember when these debates were about the All Stars stable, I'll bet when the real moneys up, say cup week for example, it will be the All Stars horses winning the big races

[paleface adios]

you have to listen for the right sound

[Basil]

6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Bullshit.

Denial, denial, denial. It was the same thing with the cyclists, the runners, the weightlifters, the footballers...

The probability of three horses from the same stable dying in identical circumstances in just 3+ months happening by chance is epsilon. Only those with their heads, necks, trunks and arses stuck in the sand would ever claim otherwise.

The Telfers' license should be suspended until such time as the RIB is able to unambiguously establish their innocence. Even if it were just the result of 'carelessness', that's simply not good enough. Not even remotely.

[Basil]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Training and racing a horse as an elite athlete will upset any woke person.  FFS - they'll want to ban mouth bits soon!!!!

As Tana Umaga once said to a Test Referee - 

 

A truly unbelievable comment, even by the standards of this site. Horses are just disposable items according to our host, which says a lot about him.

Well done Galah for exposing this disgrace, which Chief clearly wanted to stay hidden. 

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Basil said:

A truly unbelievable comment, even by the standards of this site.

 

1 hour ago, Basil said:

The Telfers' license should be suspended until such time as the RIB is able to unambiguously establish their innocence. Even if it were just the result of 'carelessness', that's simply not good enough. Not even remotely

Here is the truly unbelievable comment. Posted by you Basil. (and nothing wrong with the site) just people posting opinions . That is what a forum is. hows your axe grinding going?

Suspend the License ???????????  Innocent of what?? The poor folk (trainers and owners) have had the Absolute tragedy of losing three horses , by all reports in a short period of time. All stables lose horses. Things happen. I've winched a few onto trailers here and there.

For goodness sake, the Telfers have just won 4 races on Friday night , in an outstanding display !! they quinellaed the New Brighton Cup , streeting the Dunn stable runners. 

They are impressive race winning Trainers . THEY DO NOT WANT THEIR HORSES TO DIE, you kiwi blokes are sure as hell tough on your peers. Mark (the Best Trainer for decades) used to cop this sort of shit as well . Suspend him too ?

[Gammalite]

5 hours ago, the galah said:

Tell me,have you even bothered to watch the videos of the said races. I can only imagine what it would have been like to watch a racehorse stagger its way back into the stables ,then drop dead,or be at auckland the night the telfer horse collapsed and dieda few metres from the winning post.

No i have not watched said races. I don't know the names of the horses. I am just reading your usually logical posts to gather opinion. I DON"T accept you are diagnosing the problem as being some sort of Performance enhancer problem. (Elephant juice made a few stagger around a bit at one stage) that was powerful stuff.

To kill a horse you really need to 'Overstep the Mark'  by a fair bit. Hearts give out, but only with a very serious insult. 

Amanda and Steve have been around a Good While now and get EXCELLENT results as I just pointed out to Basil. How can you guys possible use 'Pattern' as a reason? I had 3 horses die in ONE year . Is that a pattern of abuse ???  (whens the next one dying in your Telfer pattern then ?)  They've had HUNDREDS of runners !!!! why are some horses dodging the Deadly 'perceived Pattern' ?...and you and Basil go WITHOUT any post mortem evidence? (or is there some?)

Defaming and Disgrace to read that stuff here  .(Basils insult against Telfers and even this forum site too    but I'd bet Brodies money that they (Telfers and STAFF ) take GREAT CARE of their horses. Results speak for themselves.

He's calling to shut down their operation ???? really . would you do that Galah ? after Fridays results? I say swab all those winning horses and press on to the Cup !!

[the galah]

49 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

No i have not watched said races. I don't know the names of the horses. I am just reading your usually logical posts to gather opinion. I DON"T accept you are diagnosing the problem as being some sort of Performance enhancer problem. (Elephant juice made a few stagger around a bit at one stage) that was powerful stuff.

To kill a horse you really need to 'Overstep the Mark'  by a fair bit. Hearts give out, but only with a very serious insult. 

Amanda and Steve have been around a Good While now and get EXCELLENT results as I just pointed out to Basil. How can you guys possible use 'Pattern' as a reason? I had 3 horses die in ONE year . Is that a pattern of abuse ???  (whens the next one dying in your Telfer pattern then ?)  They've had HUNDREDS of runners !!!! why are some horses dodging the Deadly 'perceived Pattern' ?...and you and Basil go WITHOUT any post mortem evidence? (or is there some?)

Defaming and Disgrace to read that stuff here  .(Basils insult against Telfers and even this forum site too    but I'd bet Brodies money that they (Telfers and STAFF ) take GREAT CARE of their horses. Results speak for themselves.

He's calling to shut down their operation ???? really . would you do that Galah ? after Fridays results? I say swab all those winning horses and press on to the Cup !!

So you have just said your commenting without even watching the races concerned. You say you don't know the names of the horses,but i gave their names in my first post.

You say"to kill a horse you really need to overstep the mark by a fair bit."...So  you do understand the points we have made. Yet you call our comments a disgrace.

They have hundreds of runners you say,knowing we have been discussing the last 4 months. So stop making numbers up. 

What has training 4 winners in a night got to do with the subject being discussed. Does training winners somehow mean there horse deaths can be overlooked. I really don't get the logic of that argument you make there.

So you have had 3 horses die in a year. Are you saying your horses dropped dead during a race yourself.If not,why say something that you know has no relevance to the circumstances being discussed. Is that the best you van come up with?Or did you bring that up because yours died in  similar circumstances?If so,Are you kidding me!!! I've been following harness racing for decades.I've never heard or recall a run of racetrack deaths in similar circumstances,yet your leaving the possible inference that you had the same thing happen to you. No wonder you are so touchy around the subject. 

No i wouldn't shut them down. But proper harness leadership would have already issued a press statement to reassure everyone that an investigation was underway and being treated with urgency.

Your have become like the chief. Twisting my words.

I was asked what i thought was the cause. I don't look at the answer from the point of view of what can i say that will minimize anything the telfers may have done. That didn't factor into my answer. i'm not here to run defence for the telfer barn like you and others are.I just answered the question and gave an opinion that i think makes the most sense. One that anyone with an open mind would consider. 

The horses who died were two  2 year olds  having their first start and a 13 start 3 year old.

You can call my comments disgraceful,thats your opinion. I think your comments are foolish.

Edited September 12, 2022 by the galah

[Brodie]

Personally dont think anything untoward going on here at all as very minute compared to how many horses Stonewall line up.

Didnt Cran Dalgety lose a few awhile back?

Bigger concern should be the loss of life and harm caused by people accepting being forced into having toxins injected into their body!

Reality is that it is always going to happen that these high performance horses are going to have issues by running so fast nowadays.

What we dont want is to have these SAFE lunatics sniffing around due to our own poohing in our own nest!!

 

[Gammalite]

9 hours ago, the galah said:

So you have just said your commenting without even watching the races concerned. You say you don't know the names of the horses,but i gave their names in my first post.

You say"to kill a horse you really need to overstep the mark by a fair bit."...So  you do understand the points we have made. Yet you call our comments a disgrace.

They have hundreds of runners you say,knowing we have been discussing the last 4 months. So stop making numbers up. 

What has training 4 winners in a night got to do with the subject being discussed. Does training winners somehow mean there horse deaths can be overlooked. I really don't get the logic of that argument you make there.

So you have had 3 horses die in a year. Are you saying your horses dropped dead during a race yourself.If not,why say something that you know has no relevance to the circumstances being discussed. Is that the best you van come up with?Or did you bring that up because yours died in  similar circumstances?If so,Are you kidding me!!! I've been following harness racing for decades.I've never heard or recall a run of racetrack deaths in similar circumstances,yet your leaving the possible inference that you had the same thing happen to you. No wonder you are so touchy around the subject. 

No i wouldn't shut them down. But proper harness leadership would have already issued a press statement to reassure everyone that an investigation was underway and being treated with urgency.

Your have become like the chief. Twisting my words.

I was asked what i thought was the cause. I don't look at the answer from the point of view of what can i say that will minimize anything the telfers may have done. That didn't factor into my answer. i'm not here to run defence for the telfer barn like you and others are.I just answered the question and gave an opinion that i think makes the most sense. One that anyone with an open mind would consider. 

The horses who died were two  2 year olds  having their first start and a 13 start 3 year old.

You can call my comments disgraceful,thats your opinion. I think your comments are foolish.

Apologies then Mr Galah. My aim is not to not defame a leading stable without evidence (scientific or phone records or video aids are what the RIU and stipes use to disqualify (or suspend) people mostly , in all sorts of cases. ) 

You have to live with it if you think 'im twisting your words' or 'am like Chief' . I am happier now you said that you wouldn't shut down the Telfer operation. as 'Basil the giant killer' would. This is because you ask what has the 4 winners got to do with?. Well , quite a bit really!. 1/ They get Swabbed and tested  2/ the focus is on the stable for everyone , 3/ it shows they are great horse-people that know what they're doing  4/ some owners are still getting some very good times at Telfers to overcome this tragedy of stable horse loss. ..etc.etc.

Sorry my comments were foolish to you. I apologise if 'disgrace' comment I made was offensive. By saying disgrace , I meant the character assasination that was going on , with lack of evidence. (the perceived pattern is Not evidence) . No i didn't lose any horses in these race circumstances (But lots of others have)  people have heart attacks too . one bloke at the stable dropped clean dead off his bicycle one day. things happen .  If you and Basil came across those poor owners of the 3 dead horses,  trying to get over their loss , imagine how the 2 of you would make them feel about Amanda and Steve and their operation if you were talking to them about the stuff you guys printed here?. They'd be aghast.

IMO (whether foolish or Not ) I think they're (Telfers) doing very well in a tough game. Any irregularity in the dead horse tests (or the 4 live winners) , in my mind determines their 'fate'. Not speculation over some Bad Luck....   

[Chief Stipe]

19 hours ago, the galah said:

There is always new technology around ways to support better performance and recovery.Have you forgotten blood spinning being legal until they outlawed it a couple of years ago.

Can you tell us all what exactly you are referring to that was made illegal?

[Chief Stipe]

17 hours ago, Basil said:

A truly unbelievable comment, even by the standards of this site. Horses are just disposable items according to our host, which says a lot about him.

Well done Galah for exposing this disgrace, which Chief clearly wanted to stay hidden. 

Do you have ANY understanding of what it takes to get a horse competitive and to the races?   Are you actually involved in ANY capacity with Harness Racing?

[the galah]

Well here is the facts as regards how many different horses they have taken to the races throughout nz from the 20th of may 2022  to today.I have gone through all the records. 

34. Thats right just 34. Some have started more than once,most a couple of times.

How many of the 34 have collapsed and died- 3.

Here is the stipes report-

cya doit- 20 may-commenced to give ground passing the 1200m and was taken to the outside of the track,before collapsing and was pronounced dead upon vet inspection.

alta debonair-22 july-weakened final bend-upon returning to the stabling area the colt collapsed and was found to be deceased.

seasider-8 september-commenced to give ground at the 700m,collapsing to the track near the stable entrance early in the home straight...and was pronounced dead on inspection by the vet.  

Samples were taken from all 3 horses and post mortems to be conducted.

They are the facts. 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, the galah said:

Well here is the facts as regards how many different horses they have taken to the races throughout nz from the 20th of may 2022  to today.I have gone through all the records. 

34. Thats right just 34. Some have started more than once,most a couple of times.

How many of the 34 have collapsed and died- 3.

Here is the stipes report-

cya doit- 20 may-commenced to give ground passing the 1200m and was taken to the outside of the track,before collapsing and was pronounced dead upon vet inspection.

alta debonair-22 july-weakened final bend-upon returning to the stabling area the colt collapsed and was found to be deceased.

seasider-8 september-commenced to give ground at the 700m,collapsing to the track near the stable entrance early in the home straight...and was pronounced dead on inspection by the vet.  

Samples were taken from all 3 horses and post mortems to be conducted.

They are the facts. 

 

Facts yes but anything else is speculation.  What's more if there was anything untoward then it will be detectable.  Afterall according to you the RIB and HRNZ are doing a fantastic job in detecting cheating.

 

Apart from INCA of course.

[Gammalite]

34 minutes ago, the galah said:

Well here is the facts as regards how many different horses they have taken to the races throughout nz from the 20th of may 2022  to today.I have gone through all the records. 

34. Thats right just 34. Some have started more than once,most a couple of times.

How many of the 34 have collapsed and died- 3.

Here is the stipes report-

cya doit- 20 may-commenced to give ground passing the 1200m and was taken to the outside of the track,before collapsing and was pronounced dead upon vet inspection.

alta debonair-22 july-weakened final bend-upon returning to the stabling area the colt collapsed and was found to be deceased.

seasider-8 september-commenced to give ground at the 700m,collapsing to the track near the stable entrance early in the home straight...and was pronounced dead on inspection by the vet.  

Samples were taken from all 3 horses and post mortems to be conducted.

They are the facts. 

 

What a tragic set of circumstances. sounds like the attrition rate from a Grand National at Aintree.  I'm a big Allstars fan, but will be Cheering for the TELFER barn, and  BD Joe and Alta Wiseguy in the NZ Cup this year,  and hoping by some miracle they can beat Self Assured??  (seems unlikely, but I did say that last year lol...)  to make up for this awful 3 months the Galah and the Stipes there  are mentioning. ( 'Wiseguy' and 'Joe' might be better suited to the Nz FFA on show day and win that ? wouldn't it be great.😊 ) cheer everyone up a bit.

The Trainers and Owners need a boost to recover from this , so some Big November results will help ease the grief they must be feeling at present. (I'm still recovering from Queenie, Judith and Olivia all checking out recently myself ) And we thought last year sucked ?

 

[hunterthepunter]

6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

  Are you actually involved in ANY capacity with Harness Racing?

he is the best dressed man on a racecourse our basil

[Davis]

On 9/12/2022 at 6:21 PM, Chief Stipe said:

Why is it "dodgy"?

SAFE is coming after racing regardless.  

I said it "looks" dodgy. There's probably a reasonable explanation for the sudden deaths of three stablemates but maybe there isn't an explanation?

[Davis]

18 hours ago, Gammalite said:

What a tragic set of circumstances. sounds like the attrition rate from a Grand National at Aintree.  I'm a big Allstars fan, but will be Cheering for the TELFER barn, and  BD Joe and Alta Wiseguy in the NZ Cup this year,  and hoping by some miracle they can beat Self Assured??  (seems unlikely, but I did say that last year lol...)  to make up for this awful 3 months the Galah and the Stipes there  are mentioning. ( 'Wiseguy' and 'Joe' might be better suited to the Nz FFA on show day and win that ? wouldn't it be great.😊 ) cheer everyone up a bit.

The Trainers and Owners need a boost to recover from this , so some Big November results will help ease the grief they must be feeling at present. (I'm still recovering from Queenie, Judith and Olivia all checking out recently myself ) And we thought last year sucked ?

 

Mate. Majestic Cruiser will win the Cup if the comes over. I can't see him being beaten at Addington with that long straight and lovely home bend. The Cruiser has a phenomenal sprint. I can see young Hart and The Cruiser powering down the outside like a rocket ship, he'll hit the front 100m out and leave them to it. Get on now.

[the galah]

5 hours ago, Davis said:

I said it "looks" dodgy. There's probably a reasonable explanation for the sudden deaths of three stablemates but maybe there isn't an explanation?

Of course you could be right on both counts.Reasonable/logical explanation and dodgy. 

What seems to have got some on here annoyed,is you can't even suggest it may be a result of the telfers giving their horses a treatment that is  known to cause deaths of horses in similar circumstances.

In other words unintentional human error.That is because that would be to accept that they may be using performance enhancers,albeit while operating within the rules.

Seems some think you are better to think the cause to be a result of poor training skills,as strange as that logic around perception of the telfer stable may be.

Just think about that.

[Spatchcock]

Alta Debonair died of a burst aorta. 

His full brother Warhol did also. And half-brother Alta Las Vegas.

I think it is safe to say that, at least in this case, that is was a case of being genetically pre-disposed rather than something nefarious.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Spatchcock