3rd Telfer horse dies

[Gammalite]

19 minutes ago, the galah said:

Seems some think you are better to think the cause to be a result of poor training skills,as strange as that logic around perception of the telfer stable may be.

No , I think Chief asked did 'You think' it was Poor Training Skills ? .

Most of the posts were in the favour of the Telfer Stable results. (except Poor old Basil) As proven last Friday night . With 4 great winners Including the New Brighton Cup quinella. The cause of your leading people about to me is Bad Luck. No Trainer wants to kill their horses. All horses get 'treatments' of one kind or another to get to their peak potential to compete at the races. You know this. I guess even Feed Supplements are a form of treatment and performance enhancer. 

The horses With-in a stable usually get the same feed and similar treatments. The Telfers Know how to prepare runners to race (and Win races) . there is No Question they have Great Training Skills !

Spatchcock  just gave a legitimate reason for one of the deaths. Hope that eases your mind a little.

 

[the galah]

I see wandering eyes is reporting on another part of this website that the RIB is investigation the deaths.

And so it should.

Are they going to do toxicology reports on all the organs that may unearth  possible causes.

They could spend a bit of money,will they?

16 minutes ago, Spatchcock said:

Alta Debonair died of a burst aorta. 

His full brother Warhol did also. And half-brother Alta Las Vegas.

I think it is safe to say that, at least in this case, that is was a case of being genetically pre-disposed rather than something nefarious.

That is relevant information to that horses death.

I was talking to a vet about treatments given to horses last month.

Her comment was words to the effect that horses can handle being given treatments legal or otherwise,but where you run into trouble is if you gave a treatment to a horse from a family which is predisposed to having certain weaknesses.

12 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

 

Spatchcock  just gave a legitimate reason for one of the deaths. Hope that eases your mind a little.

 

Spatchcock gave a logical reason,but no it doesn't ease my mind.Why would it exclude anything?

Edited September 14, 2022 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

50 minutes ago, Spatchcock said:

Alta Debonair died of a burst aorta. 

His full brother Warhol did also. And half-brother Alta Las Vegas.

I think it is safe to say that, at least in this case, that is was a case of being genetically pre-disposed rather than something nefarious.

Don't get in the way of @the galah's conspiracy.

[the galah]

34 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Don't get in the way of @the galah's conspiracy.

Its certainly relevant,but you don't seem to comprehend that it could be argued that it strengthens my argument. This information is open to interpretation either way.

There  are certain treatments used to increase red cell counts,and known to increase the risk of heart issues, where its documented that anabolic steroids are recommended be given as well at the right time to put the horse into a building state,so the treatment is most effective.

So if given to a horse from a family predisposed to heart trouble,then obviously the horse is at greater risk.

I have suggested its just logic to include my theory as a plausible possibility given the number and frequency of the deaths.

I don't think we will ever be privy to what has actually happened here.

I just hope that we don't have anything of this scale happen again to horses from any stable.

[Davis]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

Of course you could be right on both counts.Reasonable/logical explanation and dodgy. 

What seems to have got some on here annoyed,is you can't even suggest it may be a result of the telfers giving their horses a treatment that is  known to cause deaths of horses in similar circumstances.

In other words unintentional human error.That is because that would be to accept that they may be using performance enhancers,albeit while operating within the rules.

Seems some think you are better to think the cause to be a result of poor training skills,as strange as that logic around perception of the telfer stable may be.

Just think about that.

Look mate, keep your shirt on,. OK. I happen to agree with you, but I am trying to be fair. It's not fair to make snap judgements about a trainer till we know the full story. There's too much of that stuff already in the game.

I don't know what to think Galah. Really, it is a really bad look and the horses so sad. There is something gone wrong and answers must be found. 

I've been involved in the industry for over 50 years so my educated guess is that these horses have been overtrained as yearlings and two year olds, and perhaps some sort of supplement that didn't agree with them. I don't know mate. 

It's a shameful situation and a poor look for the great harness industry. 

[the galah]

57 minutes ago, Davis said:

Look mate, keep your shirt on,. OK. I happen to agree with you, but I am trying to be fair. It's not fair to make snap judgements about a trainer till we know the full story. There's too much of that stuff already in the game.

I don't know what to think Galah. Really, it is a really bad look and the horses so sad. There is something gone wrong and answers must be found. 

I've been involved in the industry for over 50 years so my educated guess is that these horses have been overtrained as yearlings and two year olds, and perhaps some sort of supplement that didn't agree with them. I don't know mate. 

It's a shameful situation and a poor look for the great harness industry. 

I haven't taken my shirt off yet. Thats a funny thing to say.I had an uncle that used to say that.

I know you happen to agree with me. Wouldn't matter if you didn't either.

I'm not sure what part of my post made you think of the shirt coming off. Maybe it was the just think about that at the end.,but that was a general comment not directed at anyone.

I'm just looking at this from the point of view of the horses concerned. Sounds like that is a top priority for you as well.I know,like everyone,that the people most upset about what has happened would be the telfers and the horses connections,as we all do.

When you talk about just trying to be fair and not wishing to make snap judgments. Well i think thats what many on here from both sides of the argument are saying. I understand that.

My point has always been that fairness doesn't eliminate considering logical possible explanations. 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by the galah

[paleface adios]

milking shaking of horses will kill them if not done properly .seen one drop dead at a bush meeting flooded lungs . snake bites are great insurance claims if your horse is no good .

[Chief Stipe]

7 hours ago, the galah said:

My point has always been that fairness doesn't eliminate considering logical possible explanations. 

But you only ever infer ONE "logical possible explanation"!  Not that that explanation IS "logical" in the absence of any evidence.

[Rangatira]

On 14/09/2022 at 8:42 PM, paleface adios said:

milking shaking of horses will kill them if not done properly .seen one drop dead at a bush meeting flooded lungs . snake bites are great insurance claims if your horse is no good .

 

[Honestjohn]

On 9/12/2022 at 5:56 PM, the galah said:

I gave an earlier explanation as to what i thought was the most likely scenario,given how they died. I understand you are looking at it from the point of view where no one can say for sure,not wishing to think anything too negative about the stable.

That's correct,  I know other statbles I wouldn't put in that category. 

Hj

Edited September 16, 2022 by Honestjohn
Spelling

[hunterthepunter]

On 16/09/2022 at 11:45 AM, Rangatira said:

 

commander kev?

[Rangatira]

1 hour ago, hunterthepunter said:

commander kev?

aka Peter "Snakebite" Wright

[Honestjohn]

OK maybe hereditary then?  I know in humans heart problems run in one family I know.  All males die of heart attacks and don't live over 40.so a guy I know had it in his genes and died at 39.  He was worth a lot of money (he started versatile garages)  his son must be about in his 30s?

Kinda weird knowing your number is nearly up? 

 

Hj