McGrath withdraws application.

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, Honestjohn said:

There plenty of honest trainers out there.  One of my first experience the trainer was what I'd say was dodgy, I never went back.  Don't know  what your inference to mccaw has to do with it?? 

 

Hj

Some considered McCaw to be the biggest professional cheat of all time.  He often crossed the line and got penalised as often as he didn't.

[Honestjohn]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

Some considered McCaw to be the biggest professional cheat of all time.  He often crossed the line and got penalised as often as he didn't.

 

Not really a fan of all blacks,  bought up in hornby  so I played league for hornby.  I was pretty good on the wing as well. 

 

Hj

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, Honestjohn said:

They used the good guys to drive,  I got to have a say as well. Cj and CD thornley honest enough for you,?  I gave junior drivers a chance as well. 

Hj

I don't have a problem with any driver or trainer going around at the moment.

https://racingintegrityboard.org.nz/decisions/ashburton-tc-26-february-2022-r8-craig-thornley/

http://jca.org.nz/race-days/geraldine-tc-harness-racing-31-1-2016/r2-geraldine-trotting-club-31-january-2016-chair-mr-s-ching/?searchterm=Thornley

[Honestjohn]

6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Some considered McCaw to be the biggest professional cheat of all time.  He often crossed the line and got penalised as often as he didn't.

That will be sad news when I tell my wife that.  She loves richie.  Lol. 

 

Hj

[Honestjohn]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I don't have a problem with any driver or trainer going around at the moment.

https://racingintegrityboard.org.nz/decisions/ashburton-tc-26-february-2022-r8-craig-thornley/

http://jca.org.nz/race-days/geraldine-tc-harness-racing-31-1-2016/r2-geraldine-trotting-club-31-january-2016-chair-mr-s-ching/?searchterm=Thornley

No blue magic or milk shaking involved , and note that thornley never seen often before the stewards. 

 

Hj

[Chief Stipe]

12 minutes ago, Honestjohn said:

That will be sad news when I tell my wife that.  She loves richie.  Lol. 

 

Hj

Given she is a follower of the true code she'll understand what it means to be competitive.

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, Honestjohn said:

No blue magic or milk shaking involved , and note that thornley never seen often before the stewards. 

 

Hj

Some would still call excessive whip use or cutting corners as cheating.  Obviously you do have some tolerance for cheating.

[Honestjohn]

Just now, Chief Stipe said:

Some would still call excessive whip use or cutting corners as cheating.  Obviously you do have some tolerance for cheating.

 

It's a fine line the whipping law. I hate it.  One of my first experience was at the workouts/trials. A known good driver got off our mare and said chop it's head off,  it's no good.  She went on to win a race and the driver never drove any of my others.  Another driver who was good?  Left some serious welts across it's arse, he never drove for me again.  So I'm prolly a bit choosey, my call isn't it? 

 

Hj

[holy ravioli]

57 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Where do you draw the line at "cheating"?  You must have a very very limited choice of Trainers or Drivers.  I guess you were never a fan of Richie McCaw either!

Is Richie McCaw a trotting driver or trainer....or are you going off topic!🤪

[Rangatira]

30 minutes ago, Honestjohn said:

Not really a fan of all blacks,  bought up in hornby  so I played league for hornby.  I was pretty good on the wing as well. 

 

Hj

As were Robin Alfeld and Marty Crequer

[Honestjohn]

1 minute ago, Rangatira said:

As were Robin Alfeld and Marty Crequer

Robin alfeld was my nemesis on the field and athletics. Some good players came out of Hornby. Brendon tuuta  one of the best . My brother had some "dealings"  with crequers sister. 

 

Hj

[Honestjohn]

9 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

Is Richie McCaw a trotting driver or trainer....or are you going off topic!🤪

Guilty as charged. 

 

Hj

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

Is Richie McCaw a trotting driver or trainer....or are you going off topic!🤪

Not at all is it off topic.  I drew a relevant comparison.  

[Honestjohn]

28 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Given she is a follower of the true code she'll understand what it means to be competitive.

She's known here as the kommandant.  LMAO. 

 

Hj

[hunterthepunter]

why was the product air supply remove from the Hrnz website 2hours after the RIU went to the property .you could buy it on line and use it race day

[Basil]

11 hours ago, mikeynz said:

I'm not interested in Mr Mcgrath, but I did note that cup day turnover was the highest for any meeting in the last ten years, that's worth some news but I ain't seen nought, maybe it's been reported, I ain't noticed.

That's a really good question. Although it has been reported a bit, I suspect the 'high turnover' story hasn't been pushed more because it contained a fair bit of poetic license. First, according to the TAB media release

https://www.tabnz.org/nz-trotting-cup-day-hits-new-mark-tab-nz

2022 nominal turnover was 13.6% greater than in 2020. But inflation over the same period was 13%, so treading water in real terms. More worryingly, the same report cites a nominal increase of only 5.6% over 2007, compared to corresponding inflation of 42%, i.e., a drop of more than 36% in real terms.

Similarly, the 2020 TAB media release

https://www.tabnz.org/irt-new-zealand-trotting-cup-delivers-record-betting

reveals that this year's turnover is only 12% up on 2014, compared to inflation of 21%, i.e., a 9% drop in real terms.

In other words, it would seem the very positive picture painted about Cup Day is considerably less rosy once one digs into the numbers and makes a fundamental adjustment. This is consistent with the very small crowd of 15000 which, covid years aside, must be the smallest attendance in a long time, probably decades ((although it actually made the day bearable for those of us who went).

[Brodie]

9 minutes ago, Basil said:

That's a really good question. Although it has been reported a bit, I suspect the 'high turnover' story hasn't been pushed more because it contained a fair bit of poetic license. First, according to the TAB media release

https://www.tabnz.org/nz-trotting-cup-day-hits-new-mark-tab-nz

2022 nominal turnover was 13.6% greater than in 2020. But inflation over the same period was 13%, so treading water in real terms. More worryingly, the same report cites a nominal increase of only 5.6% over 2007, compared to corresponding inflation of 42%, i.e., a drop of more than 36% in real terms.

Similarly, the 2020 TAB media release

https://www.tabnz.org/irt-new-zealand-trotting-cup-delivers-record-betting

reveals that this year's turnover is only 12% up on 2014, compared to inflation of 21%, i.e., a 9% drop in real terms.

In other words, it would seem the very positive picture painted about Cup Day is considerably less rosy once one digs into the numbers and makes a fundamental adjustment. This is consistent with the very small crowd of 15000 which, covid years aside, must be the smallest attendance in a long time, probably decades ((although it actually made the day bearable for those of us who went).

I think you will find the turnover is also hugely boosted by the TAB giving back heaps in Bonus Bets like nothing else on earth.

Do I believe that TAB turnover is increasing by more punters betting, then no I dont!

Most meetings around NZ have buggerall people on course to watch the racing unless you are an owner trainer or employee, or there for the hospitality!

As a punter, there ks absolutely no reason for me to go on course now, when you can bot get reasonable amounts on and this Anti Money Laundering BS!

[NZRacing]

The 'current' CEO of NZ Harness Racing only was employed in a GM role by the NZ TAB due to his working association with the ex CEO when at NZ Post. Obviously a case of the 'old boys network' which reading between the lines in this thread and others was activated to endorse and approve the application. How anybody with half a clue couldn't envisage the potential fallout is beyond me, honestly you would have to be thick not to see it. No wonder no one from management of the Board wish to comment on the matter when they have already dug themselves into a hole. At the next AGM of the Clubs the Board members and CEO should each get presented with a spade. Going silent actually makes it look worse, they would have been better to put their hands up, apologise for their incompetence and say "we #%#*ed up'". The 'stone wall' approach I guess says it all but its the flea way out.

Over the years some people I know have questioned the integrity of the harness industry because they think its tainted with rorts, its a bad look when its portrayed in the news/social media that the the rorts start at the top. This just adds more ammunition to their argument. 

Yes NZ Cup Day was a big day for turnover but who in their right mind would want to get involved in the Industry given the current management. At least foal numbers are up.

Edited November 23, 2022 by NZRacing

[Blackie]

8 hours ago, Brodie said:

As a punter, there ks absolutely no reason for me to go on course now, when you can bot get reasonable amounts on and this Anti Money Laundering BS!

Just join Boys Get Paid Brodie, get on as much as you like.

[Brodie]

45 minutes ago, Blackie said:

Just join Boys Get Paid Brodie, get on as much as you like.

Lol Blackie , they would bet on flies racing!

It is the challenge I enjoy, sorting out my own rather than others!

The NZ TAB are a monopoly that just do not play fair😩

[the galah]

10 hours ago, NZRacing said:

The 'current' CEO of NZ Harness Racing only was employed in a GM role by the NZ TAB due to his working association with the ex CEO when at NZ Post. Obviously a case of the 'old boys network' which reading between the lines in this thread and others was activated to endorse and approve the application. How anybody with half a clue couldn't envisage the potential fallout is beyond me, honestly you would have to be thick not to see it. No wonder no one from management of the Board wish to comment on the matter when they have already dug themselves into a hole. At the next AGM of the Clubs the Board members and CEO should each get presented with a spade. Going silent actually makes it look worse, they would have been better to put their hands up, apologise for their incompetence and say "we #%#*ed up'". The 'stone wall' approach I guess says it all but its the flea way out.

Over the years some people I know have questioned the integrity of the harness industry because they think its tainted with rorts, its a bad look when its portrayed in the news/social media that the the rorts start at the top. This just adds more ammunition to their argument. 

Yes NZ Cup Day was a big day for turnover but who in their right mind would want to get involved in the Industry given the current management. At least foal numbers are up.

Its a bit concerning and even surprising the decision makers in this case were so out of touch with how their actions would be received.As you have said,the failure to comment and admit they should have handled it differently just makes it worse. 

The perception of having connections to decision makers and gaining preferential treatment because of that,was concerning,but in reality is how so much works in most walks of life and it has been common place in some areas harness racing for decades.Still doesn't mean it should happen though.

If we put that all to one side,we still should ask questions.for example...

1)Should anyone who has received a disqualification, be given a pathway back into the industry prior to their disqualification expiring.

2)what form should that pathway take and how could it be done in a fair and consistent way.

3)who should have input into the decision making and what terms and conditions would apply to those concerned.

4)who would oversee compliance and how would that be done.

Personally i think,if handled correctly,there should be a pathway for whoever it may be.

If at the time of the original penalty,the pathway is not considered or there is no rule allowing it to be considered then,then perhaps its as simple as making a rule, saying for example,after completion of say 75% or whatever,of the disqualification then application can be made for that pathway to commence and it could be in the form of breaking in(only) of horses.

While most unfortunate that it has been handled as it has been,the matter still seems to lack clarity and needs to be addressed. Maybe there shouldn't be a pathway,but is it realistic to expect someone after a lengthy disqualification, to overnight be in a position to start training again?Should that even be a consideration?

The best way to deal with the questions i raise is to be transparent and have consultative leadership.

Mcgrath in some ways has become  a bit of a victim of the decision makers who were supposed to be trying to help him.The decision makers not only failed the industry ,they also failed mcgrath.

Edited November 24, 2022 by the galah

[NZRacing]

8 minutes ago, the galah said:

Mcgrath in some ways has become a bit of a victim of the decision makers who were supposed to be trying to help him.The decision makers not only failed the industry ,they also failed mcgrath.

Very valid point. I don't think McGrath deserves any negative feedback that needs to be pointed at those who instigated the process to proceed. Anyone in McGraths shoes gets offered a deal to suit they are going to put their hands up.

The old boys network worked fine in the racing industry a few decades when Clubs opened the gates and patrons poured in and the funds of most Clubs were in the positive. Today you have to be more transparent and open, sadly it seems a few involved in the administration of harness racing haven't moved with the times. 

Someone told me management in the HRNZ office still wear masks, that's probably one of their better moves

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, NZRacing said:

Very valid point. I don't think McGrath deserves any negative feedback that needs to be pointed at those who instigated the process to proceed. Anyone in McGraths shoes gets offered a deal to suit they are going to put their hands up.

The old boys network worked fine in the racing industry a few decades when Clubs opened the gates and patrons poured in and the funds of most Clubs were in the positive. Today you have to be more transparent and open, sadly it seems a few involved in the administration of harness racing haven't moved with the times. 

Someone told me management in the HRNZ office still wear masks, that's probably one of their better moves

if anyone at HRNZ are still wearing masks then they deserve the “Don’t come Monday”

Only total Dickheads wear masks now and if their thought process is that masks protect them from catching the “Deadly Covid” then they have nothing between the ears!

It is now a know fact that being jabbed is bad fir your health and Pfizer has admitted it never stopped transmission, that is the repugnant thing about the BS we have had for well over 2 years!!

You are either disqualified or you arent and the stupid decisions are continuing to  made!

 

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

While most unfortunate that it has been handled as it has been,the matter still seems to lack clarity and needs to be addressed. Maybe there shouldn't be a pathway,but is it realistic to expect someone after a lengthy disqualification, to overnight be in a position to start training again?Should that even be a consideration?

FFS breaking in yearlings is hardly "training again"!  What it highlights to me is how insular and bitchy the industry has become.  Turning in on itself.  Geez Ozzie Thoroughbred Racing is so much more fun, robust and refreshing.

[the galah]

20 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

FFS breaking in yearlings is hardly "training again"!  What it highlights to me is how insular and bitchy the industry has become.  Turning in on itself.  Geez Ozzie Thoroughbred Racing is so much more fun, robust and refreshing.

You never seem to read what i say do you. Can you just ignore my posts as whenever you reply it puts an interpretation of my posts that was never there.

Just for you, I never said breaking in yearlings was training again. I said if there is to be a pathway prior to the end of the disqualification period,then anyone who was granted that pathway ,would be in a better position when they started actual training again.

Edited November 24, 2022 by the galah