The Centaur Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 On 29/12/2022 at 1:28 PM, The Centaur said: People attend racing this time of year for reasons other than gambling or viewing horse flesh. Therefore its important to spread the horses far and wide and not have the absurdity of say Matamata with 12 races. The other factor is presentation. The greyhounds seem to have wriggled their way into programming by wrapping their product around midweek gallops often restricting gallop TV presentation by cutting into galloping time. In December there were 39 greyhound TAB meets in New Zealand compared to 27 galloping meetings. Further more the dog presenter is now the "voice" of TAB betting on gallops. All the while NZTR keeps hiring more staff. If only just one of them would advise the TAB on presentation. Bruce Sherwin now doing the dog commentating. Thats a huge conflict of interest after all isn't he on the board at NZTR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, The Centaur said: Bruce Sherwin now doing the dog commentating. Thats a huge conflict of interest after all isn't he on the board at NZTR. I do struggle to see the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Doomed said: I do struggle to see the problem. In some aspects dogs are competing with horse racing. If you are on the board of any enterprise its inappropriate to be promoting for a fee the opposition. If thats the extent of a board members commitment they shouldn't be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 The Jockeys' Association was set up by Bill Broughton and I cringe at what it has become, disrespectful to the great man. As far as the Trainers' Association is concerned, I think there are members with balls, vision and oomph but, not enough who aren't under the influence of any of their owners. Strength comes in many forms and sometimes from quite unexpected quarters. The times of Covid taught us much. Times when I was ashamed to admit I was a New Zealander. Although NZTR appeared to get racing through Covid by at least having events on, the fact they couldn't interpret the Covid Response Act correctly, mandated the vaccine passes unnecessarily and, brought in Rapid Antigen Testing far too late, in my book shows them for what they are. I share the sentiments of many on here regarding the ignorance of those at NZTR not listening to those who know. I have a truckload of correspondence as proof. However, having been in racing all my life I'm drawn to stayers and I'd never shirk the immense work they require either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 1 hour ago, The Centaur said: In some aspects dogs are competing with horse racing. If you are on the board of any enterprise its inappropriate to be promoting for a fee the opposition. If thats the extent of a board members commitment they shouldn't be there. If dogs weren't offering a betting product do you really think that Gallops would pick up the revenue let alone cover overheads? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honestjohn Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 I've just started betting on the wobblers again. $4 ezy Tris. Traveling well at the moment. $40 pool to start. I have $448 left after taking$600 out. Today is a lay day, investing again tomorrow. Hj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: If dogs weren't offering a betting product do you really think that Gallops would pick up the revenue let alone cover overheads? Who knows? My issue based on this definition.... A conflict of interest arises when a member's duties, or responsibilities to the Board, are (or might reasonably be perceived to be) affected by some other interest, relationship or duty that may not be in the Board's best interests. Perceived conflict must be managed in the same way as an actual conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: In my opinion both Trainers and Jockeys have had ample opportunity to collectively drive change. Trainers especially however they are driven by self interest, lack vision and balls to act collectively. Hence they get what they deserved. Can't agree with that. Owners, trainers, jockeys ... there's absolutely no consensus to do anything like that and it seems to me impossible to get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 2 hours ago, curious said: Can't agree with that. Owners, trainers, jockeys ... there's absolutely no consensus to do anything like that and it seems to me impossible to get one. You seem to actually do agree with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Honestjohn said: I've just started betting on the wobblers again. $4 ezy Tris. Traveling well at the moment. $40 pool to start. I have $448 left after taking$600 out. Today is a lay day, investing again tomorrow. Hj That's very impressive, the lucky dip of the racing game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honestjohn Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 19 hours ago, Shad said: That's very impressive, the lucky dip of the racing game Yeah, my go to when I can't be bothered lol. Invested 28 races today for 8.05 return. Day for watching races today. Hj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 Crowd numbers for the Grand Tour at Te Rapa looked pitiful on TS, anyone attend and can confirm my assesement is well off the mark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 On 31/12/2022 at 2:14 PM, Chief Stipe said: In my opinion both Trainers and Jockeys have had ample opportunity to collectively drive change. Trainers especially however they are driven by self interest, lack vision and balls to act collectively. Hence they get what they deserved. South Island race programming is a case in point. Have to agree & its gone way too far to return to anywhere near where it needs to to prosper. Most trainers just follow the senior or succesful trainers of their district like sheep for opinions , most have been wrong for years and their self interest will not see any much needed change... how does that song go "we are on the road to nowhere!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, Huey said: Crowd numbers for the Grand Tour at Te Rapa looked pitiful on TS, anyone attend and can confirm my assesement is well off the mark? Looked like a good crowd at Riverton. It would be interesting to be able to compare the crowds at Riverton and Te Rapa if they keep such stats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 On 31/12/2022 at 1:26 PM, KickintheKods said: Well said 99. I agree with the vast majority of what you have written. Your point about leadership is the most salient one, in my humble opinion. In recent times, the man at the top has been a licorice assortment of Australian rejects, and everyone of them were totally bloody useless. At least we now have a Kiwi who has had a bit of pedigree in the game, who is approachable and listens and seems, to all intent to want to bring about some change. His problem is convincing the dullards in Petone that change is good - they have been brain washed, after years of working in a government bullshit bubble, that change is not necessary to keep the tax churn budget on target. Ask any of them to point out the Dock on a horse, and they would be all at sea. They wouldn't have a clue. I like your positivity and I hope it rubs off on many of the younger members of the industry. This old dog has lost his zest for NZ racing. My tail wags when the Aussie maiden races are worth $24,000. If I had a $ for everytime I've heard how approachable these leaders are I'd be very rich indeed! However where we continue to lack is with their(leaders) inability to make the decisions that need to be made, their inability to rock the boat, their inability to say what we are doing isn't working and not with some political double speak that really means we need to follow the agenda so get on board while we really give it to the small guy , but most of all its their inability to build significant relations across the industry to improve outcomes for the majority and not just a select few. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 12 minutes ago, Doomed said: Looked like a good crowd at Riverton. It would be interesting to be able to compare the crowds at Riverton and Te Rapa if they keep such stats. They won't be doing that, nothing beats a good Grand Tour! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Huey said: They won't be doing that, nothing beats a good Grand Tour! I'm interested to know whether the ARC are still contributing the extra stakes money to all their races despite them being held at Te Rapa. Very generous of them if they do. Makes their playing away from home pretty expensive over 2 or 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 31 minutes ago, Doomed said: I'm interested to know whether the ARC are still contributing the extra stakes money to all their races despite them being held at Te Rapa. Very generous of them if they do. Makes their playing away from home pretty expensive over 2 or 3 years. Looking at the Draft Funding policy , it appears they are not, this obviously may have changed particularly with the Distribution being reduced. https://loveracing.nz/OnHorseFiles/Draft Funding Policy for NZ Thoroughbred clubs 2022 2023 Season 28 June 2022 v1.0.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumbles Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Huey said: Crowd numbers for the Grand Tour at Te Rapa looked pitiful on TS, anyone attend and can confirm my assesement is well off the mark? Free admittance today so if nobody went then things aren't looking too good but then again who goes to Hamilton for a holiday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 On 31/12/2022 at 5:25 PM, curious said: Can't agree with that. Owners, trainers, jockeys ... there's absolutely no consensus to do anything like that and it seems to me impossible to get one. Yes. Agree on that. In the more than thirty years I have been taking note of racing matters - as opposed to, in the beginning, just being a youngster enjoying working with horses and being involved - I haven't heard or seen one trainer or stakeholder [ apart from those who post here and a few elsewhere ] who has any idea about the bigger picture. I can go back those thirty years, and recall sitting in a district committee meeting when it was decided that there were too many open handicaps. Changing populations and the inexorable drift northwards of horses and people had to be taken into account, obviously. But the decisions that were made even then started the downward spiral and it has never been reversed. The Wyndham and Waikouaiti Cups were both run, then, on New Year's Day. So, the Wyndham Cup became a Class 3 event. So did the Westport Cup. Others followed. A close associate, a member of a very well-known racing family, had a very useful handicapper. He won 7 and had another 21 placings. Very handy. His owner said, that's me. They're f###ing racing. Most open handicappers will never win an Auckland or Wellington Cup. So there will be stacks of horses, nice horses, with nowhere to race. When Bob's finished, so am I. I'll never race another horse. So, even then, there were problems starting, and once the new 'Act' came into being in 2003, the rot increased. The ratings system was supposed to help there, but we have seen the flaws in that, and the very good and detailed work on that and more, given to NZTR was simply ignored. One commentator who did have an idea, was former journalist Dave McCarthy. But, to be fair, he couldn't be arsed trying to beat his head against a brick wall. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 13 hours ago, Huey said: Crowd numbers for the Grand Tour at Te Rapa looked pitiful on TS, anyone attend and can confirm my assesement is well off the mark? There was a significant crowd at Te Rapa, probably the only larger day in the last 12 months was Cup day in mid December, all areas of the course were pretty much full. Not sure on the Grand Tour part of it, there were signs up for it etc, I don't understand what it is or even why. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 18 minutes ago, barryb said: There was a significant crowd at Te Rapa, probably the only larger day in the last 12 months was Cup day in mid December, all areas of the course were pretty much full. Not sure on the Grand Tour part of it, there were signs up for it etc, I don't understand what it is or even why. ok, good to hear , looked poor numbers on the lawn. But obviously tuned in at wrong time. Don't feel bad, no one knows what The Grand Tour is! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Freda said: Yes. Agree on that. In the more than thirty years I have been taking note of racing matters - as opposed to, in the beginning, just being a youngster enjoying working with horses and being involved - I haven't heard or seen one trainer or stakeholder [ apart from those who post here and a few elsewhere ] who has any idea about the bigger picture. I can go back those thirty years, and recall sitting in a district committee meeting when it was decided that there were too many open handicaps. Changing populations and the inexorable drift northwards of horses and people had to be taken into account, obviously. But the decisions that were made even then started the downward spiral and it has never been reversed. The Wyndham and Waikouaiti Cups were both run, then, on New Year's Day. So, the Wyndham Cup became a Class 3 event. So did the Westport Cup. Others followed. A close associate, a member of a very well-known racing family, had a very useful handicapper. He won 7 and had another 21 placings. Very handy. His owner said, that's me. They're f###ing racing. Most open handicappers will never win an Auckland or Wellington Cup. So there will be stacks of horses, nice horses, with nowhere to race. When Bob's finished, so am I. I'll never race another horse. So, even then, there were problems starting, and once the new 'Act' came into being in 2003, the rot increased. The ratings system was supposed to help there, but we have seen the flaws in that, and the very good and detailed work on that and more, given to NZTR was simply ignored. One commentator who did have an idea, was former journalist Dave McCarthy. But, to be fair, he couldn't be arsed trying to beat his head against a brick wall. Which reminds me of one of my favourite quotes from a well known former northern race-caller who happened to have his birthday yesterday. This was following yet another but earlier taxpayer handout to the industry. "It would be good to get something for your first win, at the moment you get a bag of spuds and if you run second you've got to peel the bloody things" Nothing has changed. It's just got worse. Edited January 1, 2023 by curious 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 And oh, Freda, who is Bob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 23 minutes ago, curious said: And oh, Freda, who is Bob? County Antrim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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