Chief Stipe Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 I see the usual mob of @Happy Sunrise, @JJ Flash, @Karrotsisback and others have got it wrong again with Tim Williams Field of Poppies drive. Although Williams pleaded guilty (as many others are doing because the Stipes get it wrong and come down harder if you don't plead guilty) he did have a good excuse. If you look closely you will see the horse is struggling to stay on the back of the horse it is trailing I.e. making no progress. You will also see that there is a Murphy Blind on the horse which is blocking its view. The moment Williams switches back the horses sees competition and gets back on the bit. Then it runs out of racing room. I guess the punters option was to stay where it was and possibly not run a place. It is a shame that we now see many top drivers without much confidence in the judicial system. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Hahaha Yeah Tim Williams could outdrive all them blind-folded (me ,you,galah and stewards as well 😂). gets beat once and he's the criminal of the century. There was great debate here with the Saginaw drive at Addington when the same thing happened. think I lost that arguement too lol... (i'm ALWAYS on the side of the Driver 😉🏆) Happy wasn't too happy at all, that i gave these drives the 'All-clear to Pay' hahaha. But what can you do ? these blokes go out race after race and give a GREAT Sight. one slip and you're crap ? hahaha 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 26 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Hahaha Yeah Tim Williams could outdrive all them blind-folded (me ,you,galah and stewards as well 😂). gets beat once and he's the criminal of the century. There was great debate here with the Saginaw drive at Addington when the same thing happened. think I lost that arguement too lol... (i'm ALWAYS on the side of the Driver 😉🏆) Happy wasn't too happy at all, that i gave these drives the 'All-clear to Pay' hahaha. But what can you do ? these blokes go out race after race and give a GREAT Sight. one slip and you're crap ? hahaha I agree @Gammalite most of the critics have never sat behind a horse let alone led one. Oh the irony perhaps Tim should have given Poppies a few good cracks with the whip to get its mind on the job. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I see the usual mob of @Happy Sunrise, @JJ Flash, @Karrotsisback and others have got it wrong again with Tim Williams Field of Poppies drive. Although Williams pleaded guilty (as many others are doing because the Stipes get it wrong and come down harder if you don't plead guilty) he did have a good excuse. If you look closely you will see the horse is struggling to stay on the back of the horse it is trailing I.e. making no progress. You will also see that there is a Murphy Blind on the horse which is blocking its view. The moment Williams switches back the horses sees competition and gets back on the bit. Then it runs out of racing room. I guess the punters option was to stay where it was and possibly not run a place. It is a shame that we now see many top drivers without much confidence in the judicial system. Wow. That's a remarkable trio of friends to have in your mob. Just add Prince Harry and paradise would be complete. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ludwig said: Wow. That's a remarkable trio of friends to have in your mob. Just add Prince Harry and paradise would be complete. To be fair to the trio,at least they could see that had williams just pulled out and given his horse a clear run,it probably wins. Just an obvious tactical error that he admitted and was dealt with fairly.I'm sure if williams felt he should be defending the charge he would have,but he didn't because he knew he got it wrong.Thats the way things should work. Edited January 12, 2023 by the galah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 32 minutes ago, the galah said: To be fair to the trio,at least they could see that had williams just pulled out and given his horse a clear run,it probably wins. Just an obvious tactical error that he admitted and was dealt with fairly.I'm sure if williams felt he should be defending the charge he would have,but he didn't because he knew he got it wrong.Thats the way things should work. Wrong. Poppies was off the bit and wouldn't stay on the back of the horse it was trailing. Williams chose to go in and the horse comes back on the bit. The only way it wins is if a horse came on the outside of it and it decided to try. That's why I never back horses with Murphy Blinds or too much head gear. Williams pleaded guilty because he knows he would have been worse off. Not because he didn't have a good reason but because the RIB are clueless. The latter are killing the game. Tell me this you punting experts what did Williams gain from his drive other than a suspension? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Not too sure why some people often pick on Tim Williams. To my mind Tim Williams has been one of most improved harness drivers that NZ has had! When he started out he had plenty of ability, probably too much, as he probably wanted to be as good as his mate, Dexter! When he was down south he used to be very aggressive but once he came back up to Chch and worked at the AllStars stables he improved dramatically. You only have to look at his UDR to see just how good he really is! I rank him very highly, and yes he doesnt always drive as consistently as say Blair Orange does! He is one of the very best we have and a credit to the industry and his family! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Brodie said: Not too sure why some people often pick on Tim Williams. To my mind Tim Williams has been one of most improved harness drivers that NZ has had! When he started out he had plenty of ability, probably too much, as he probably wanted to be as good as his mate, Dexter! When he was down south he used to be very aggressive but once he came back up to Chch and worked at the AllStars stables he improved dramatically. You only have to look at his UDR to see just how good he really is! I rank him very highly, and yes he doesnt always drive as consistently as say Blair Orange does! He is one of the very best we have and a credit to the industry and his family! But in this case no one has picked on Tim Williams. Everyone knows hes a very talented driver,but hes not infallible. His drive in this case is just one of those that was an error in judgment and was to a degree that deserved a penalty. 3 days suspension is nothing major,but if anything this case does tend to highlight how harsh some of the whip rules penalties are. Both type of rules are based on perception and it could be argued that the rule williams transgressed, creates a worse perception than those being charged under the whip rule.Did his penalty reflect that or are the whip rules penalties too harsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 9 hours ago, the galah said: But in this case no one has picked on Tim Williams. Everyone knows hes a very talented driver,but hes not infallible. His drive in this case is just one of those that was an error in judgment and was to a degree that deserved a penalty. 3 days suspension is nothing major,but if anything this case does tend to highlight how harsh some of the whip rules penalties are. Both type of rules are based on perception and it could be argued that the rule williams transgressed, creates a worse perception than those being charged under the whip rule.Did his penalty reflect that or are the whip rules penalties too harsh. Perception ISN'T reality. We now have situations where Drivers are pleading guilty to get a lesser penalty rather than defend themselves. That isn't particularly just. In Williams case his horse was struggling to keep up. He made a decision that got it back on the bit. Perhaps the punters should be educated about the vagaries of horse driving by more drivers defending their actions. There was no error of judgement on Williams part as he tried to get the best he could from his horse using his years of experience at the top level. What did he gain from not doing what some punters perceive as the best option? Absolutely nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 9 hours ago, the galah said: But in this case no one has picked on Tim Williams. Everyone knows hes a very talented driver,but hes not infallible. His drive in this case is just one of those that was an error in judgment and was to a degree that deserved a penalty. 3 days suspension is nothing major,but if anything this case does tend to highlight how harsh some of the whip rules penalties are. Both type of rules are based on perception and it could be argued that the rule williams transgressed, creates a worse perception than those being charged under the whip rule.Did his penalty reflect that or are the whip rules penalties too harsh. The whip rule is so WRONG and needs changing! Tim Williams did not deserve a 3 day suspension, there are far worse drives that never get mentioned!! Racing Integrity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 20 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Wrong. Poppies was off the bit and wouldn't stay on the back of the horse it was trailing. Williams chose to go in and the horse comes back on the bit. The only way it wins is if a horse came on the outside of it and it decided to try. That's why I never back horses with Murphy Blinds or too much head gear. Williams pleaded guilty because he knows he would have been worse off. Not because he didn't have a good reason but because the RIB are clueless. The latter are killing the game. Tell me this you punting experts what did Williams gain from his drive other than a suspension? What about a Murphy with a hole in it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 On 12/01/2023 at 11:54 AM, Chief Stipe said: I see the usual mob of @Happy Sunrise, @JJ Flash, @Karrotsisback and others have got it wrong again with Tim Williams Field of Poppies drive. Although Williams pleaded guilty (as many others are doing because the Stipes get it wrong and come down harder if you don't plead guilty) he did have a good excuse. If you look closely you will see the horse is struggling to stay on the back of the horse it is trailing I.e. making no progress. You will also see that there is a Murphy Blind on the horse which is blocking its view. The moment Williams switches back the horses sees competition and gets back on the bit. Then it runs out of racing room. I guess the punters option was to stay where it was and possibly not run a place. It is a shame that we now see many top drivers without much confidence in the judicial system. It's a much bigger shame that horses can have no confidence in it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Basil said: It's a much bigger shame that horses can have no confidence in it at all. I assume that you are referring to the Murphy Blind. It is used to try and keep the horses head straight. I guess a more "horse welfare friendly" device than a boring pole with a pricker on it. I try to avoid backing horses with too much head gear. Purely based on observation but some trainers need to use head gear on their horses more than others. Which in my opinion is perhaps symptomatic of poor breaking in practices. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I assume that you are referring to the Murphy Blind. It is used to try and keep the horses head straight. I guess a more "horse welfare friendly" device than a boring pole with a pricker on it. I try to avoid backing horses with too much head gear. Purely based on observation but some trainers need to use head gear on their horses more than others. Which in my opinion is perhaps symptomatic of poor breaking in practices. I think trainers often put gear on to solve an issue that could be solved with more time and patience.In the short term may be better,but long term maybe not.I suppose trainers that do that are mindful of how much an owner is paying them,and want quick results. Ken barron is a trainer who has little gear on his horses most of the time and they are very well behaved. Edited January 13, 2023 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 On 1/13/2023 at 3:54 PM, Blossom lady said: What about a Murphy with a hole in it ? only good horses wear them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 6 hours ago, paleface adios said: only good horses wear them One's a bit faster than Paleface Adios.? this Nz mare pretty sharp .? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 19 hours ago, paleface adios said: only good horses wear them Did you work out who the good mare above in photo is ?. Ranga would be all over it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Grant Crabbe’s champion mare Shartin right there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 On 14/01/2023 at 10:07 AM, Chief Stipe said: I assume that you are referring to the Murphy Blind. It is used to try and keep the horses head straight. I guess a more "horse welfare friendly" device than a boring pole with a pricker on it. I try to avoid backing horses with too much head gear. Purely based on observation but some trainers need to use head gear on their horses more than others. Which in my opinion is perhaps symptomatic of poor breaking in practices. “Poor breaking in practises” you are kidding right. You are totally clueless with your thinking here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 26 minutes ago, Blossom lady said: “Poor breaking in practises” you are kidding right. You are totally clueless with your thinking here Really? So you don't agree that poor early education or non-detection of underlying physiological issues can manifest later on the race track as issues requiring the application of corrective gear? Please explain how that is clueless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 15 hours ago, Gammalite said: One's a bit faster than Paleface Adios.? this Nz mare pretty sharp .? The Americans certainly know how to rig a horse. Too much head gear for the chief. He would have gone broke trying to bet against her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 23 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Really? So you don't agree that poor early education or non-detection of underlying physiological issues can manifest later on the race track as issues requiring the application of corrective gear? Please explain how that is clueless? You do realise the massive difference between racing and breaking in speeds? Lots of horses will steer differently on Raceday from how they train at home. While a horse can be ruined while breaking in the majority of issues are caused by going round and round on the training tracks. This is where your straight line training comes in. The scandinavians led the way with this . Many trainers train the other way round but horses can still pick up bad habits especially on the bends. Soreness from repetitive training is also a factor . Breeding can be a factor also. You see many horses by the same dire wearing the same gear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 34 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Really? So you don't agree that poor early education or non-detection of underlying physiological issues can manifest later on the race track as issues requiring the application of corrective gear? Please explain how that is clueless? Still waiting for your informed opinion regarding murphy’s with a hole in them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 25 minutes ago, Blossom lady said: Still waiting for your informed opinion regarding murphy’s with a hole in them! What size hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: What size hole? About eye size. But anybody who has used murphy’s would have a clue what I’m talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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