Gammalite

I've met a lot of owners, trained and driven horses for them. Raced against many opponents with lots of similar owners. I can't think of any that returned a profit Chief. We did the best we could to break even. I only charged $150 per week training fee in the 90's. The millionaire owners like Seymour here with leap To Fame have actually spent the most. bucket loads of horses (before Leap To Fame) take bucketloads of attention , staff, breeding, vets, fees etc. he'd be down millions on harness I liked my owners to have 2 horses, that way they had one racing every week still (if one was spelling, injury etc) and they keep the interest that way. and aren't spending too much. just a good business model that worked. and then Try and win a race at least every 3 months just to break even with each horse. (that's hard enough to do) . If you do your math you could say law of averages says that with 10 horses starting in a race, and 10 races starts for your horse in 3 month period, you would on average run placings of one 1st, a 2nd , a 3rd down to a 10th and last placing. is amazing how close this actually pans for your regular horse. the ratings system pits them against horses of similar ability week to week. impossible to bet on. That's the return your average horse in QLD can expect through the year. thankfully they are usually 9 horse fields nowadays . so the win might come one race sooner. you need 4 wins per year just to break even . Much harder in NZ to get a profit with your horse. Not enough race starts per year. field size too big SI sometimes. a whole heap of your runners don't win 4 per year .Expensive training fees, and only a certain percentage actually get to the races to have a start. That's why I like the Cambridge idea of running each Tuesday for the slow poke horses. Give the owners a chance to get something back on their investments as you indicated ?.

Fair comment , but mostly it's the Millionaire owners/ consortiums / bloodstock agents that buy a slot in the 1st place . To race their pride and joy in. It's not exactly Joe Blow owner from Nelson or anything lol The $2,000,000 Eureka is on very soon. 10 slots . Who's got em? They all paid $300,000 each for a 3 years period of starters. so I call that a large entry fee. even if you don't Doomed. can't be too different in the Race by Grins ??? here's the 10 Eureka boys for ya . Space. Space. Space. Space>> Millionaire Kevin Seymour (QLD) bought a slot last year (for Leap To Fame but he only ran 2nd.) but Kevin has lots of horses Western Jewel farms (mcCarthy stud farm) have a slot ) plenty of horses to pick from. Millionaire Danny zavitsanos. Danny races plenty of horses. Victoria mainly. Tas harness racing . they own a slot to send best Tassie horse each year. John Singleton . multi millionaire , races gallopers mainly . everyone knows singo though. Aaron Bain and Summit Bloodstock. these guys have Bucket loads of horses for all the penny share holders around the country. They have contributed greatly to the downfall of NZ harness by buying anything that moves sometimes. even race horses in Tamworth trying to dominate the scene. Grimson stables current NZ Cup holders with Swayzee. also had a slot in WA $1,200,000 slot race that they won with cheap NZ buy BETTERZIPPIT last year. picked up 1/2 million in one go !! amazing. Slot probably backed by Mick Boots who is buying horses from you guys every month since Swayzee won. Are you running short of Numbers yet ?? Cordina Racing Italian family millionaire mob , been racing many horses for years. Soho Standardbreds racing horses for years . very wealthy bloodstock mob Queensland Racing . Who surprisingly have popped Grant Dixon runner in their slot coming up next month , instead of Seymour having him this year lol hahaha there you go !! all Multi millionaire owners . (Grimson still young so might not be at the million yet , but will be closing in on it shortly so don't panic ) They all paid up and can now race for the Big bucks . Best of Luck to them all !!!

no they shouldn't. that's why Slot races are coming into play . Owners can race for Monster Dollars once again , and pay for the privalidge. The Grins Race has been FANTASTIC, and now they started a trot . Just Believe a Bit good in it , but can't have all the luck. still good prize for 2nd for your star horses. AND the owners 'subsidise ' it themselves. Have to pay a large entry fee. The way of the future. (think your gallops will do it soon too) excellent racing. Just put up, shut up and collect 😅👍💰.

like any sport , ya just want to be involved if you love/enjoy it. No the money isn't much , but we're not all Purdons, Butts, Dunns or Telfers so they need somewhere to go to win. (or race competitively) I was annoyed Barry put his horse in the junior drivers race at Cambridge this week actually, as just mugs the Battlers. I know several trainers here who don't bother competing AT ALL at Albion Park anymore at all, which races 3 times per week. Have to leave that for the McMullens and Dixon's with all their millionaire owners mainly. They just send a few around at Redcliffe each Wednesday and Thursday to still have fun, win one race to pay their way each 2nd week of so with one of the team , and make a living that way. Cambridge could be the 'ideal' Redcliffe equal if they race each week. which seems to be what they are doing to KEEP PEOPLE in the Great Sport . and winning enough to get by. The Mustard is cut already Chief . (only about 15% of horses that race return a profit for their owners by the time they finish racing when you add up all the costs. ) not many cut the mustard in the end 💰.

Berry The Cash !!🏆 what a great ride by Portia too. With All that weight too !! and she looked after him in the run as much as she could. And he Wins the Grand National Hurdle just now at Riccarton. his 2nd one possibly. The Gold Medalist of the Jumpers. 🥇 Berry The Cash and Portia Matthews (honourable mention to the stable staff and trainer Oulaghan too)

$2,369 for the winner of each race Chief. (10 winners got that each with horses barely able to break 2min mile that would get zero at Albion, Auckland, Addington) excellent stuff You have to generally win 4 races per year to just break even with a usual country horse anyway. The Cambridge Races give the SLOW-Pokes a chance to race. even though as you say they will run at a career loss , but you begrudge them Winning Anything ?? why ?? and all you guys is grizzle grizzle grizzle as usual. they AL need somewhere to race? I'd be happy if they ran them Non-tote (we did once) to stop you guys grizzling. But They NEED To Race 'NoworNever' is talking ELITIST just above , and he is right in the sense that Albion, Auckland , Addington generally have the rich owners these days. Mick Boots is buying up all your horses now Swayzee won there, and Dean Shannon owns big swags he bought at the sales too (inc Merlin the best in country) Therefore CAMBRIDGE TUESDAYS and meetings like that (Manawatu) Are VITAL for the battling poorer owners/ or trainers, and even the Learner drivers TO get A Fricken Go !!😁

The only way you can help owners and Trainers is to actually Have Regular meetings Brodster. The smaller the field the better. Means the owners chances of a 'return a greatly enhanced. (QLD country just runs 9 horse fields now for the whole racecard instead of 10 that it was 2 years ago) will be even better when it drops to 8 to give stables even more returns. Times are tough. Not a lot of folk racing horses at the present time. Those that are paying the bills Do Need a return on their investments. (Unless just going around for the love of it like the old days and in some remote SI areas.) QLD put a race meeting on last Sunday of 10 races of 8 horses for $40,000 total stakes for the entire meeting (4k per Race) That's All you need to do mateys . To Keep the owners and Trainers (and stable hands and drivers too) ALL getting some reward and a few bucks in the sky rocket (pocket) GOOD On Cambridge Giving something to the Participants each week ! is very Important. A great step forward is Regular Racing TO KEEP THE GAME ALIVE. keep the participants interested. 👍

Such a shame to read this thread and see one of the iconic things of thoroughbred racing in the beautiful Jumping horses of New Zealand be in danger of closing down. Here's a Magnificent jumper by Zed that Kevin Myers sent over for his owners a few years ago , and ended up going around in our Biggest jump, The Grand Annual, on 4 occasions. ZED EM seen here winning brilliantly 2019 (and placed the other 3 times) over the gruelling 5500m event and retiring with over a $1million in earnings. We'll miss seeing great achievements like this . From great horses like this. the great Zed Em 🏆.

Com'on Chief . why don't ya put it up as a comp and take some entries ? You still have a Bag of coffee prize don't ya ? or a nice Racing Book from your library would be great ? I feel like a good read . bit limited on NZ racing. Shane Dye was good ? 🤣 lovin' Mickey Dee too.

Have always loved it. teams Aus and NZ had some great clashes in the 90's and a few teams and individual medals. Australia with team gold at Barcelona, Atlanta and Sydney. Alas an Aussie horse broke down in the cross country yesterday so we are out of it at Paris. They did get silver last time in Tokyo. so hoping NZ have a great show-jumping day today and can medal today. The Rugby 7's I like too. the kiwi and Aussie men's teams both dumped out of the medals by South Africa 🙄, which was a bit unfortunate. Could be a Quinella in the women's though. I'm picking the Aussie girls to knock off the defending champions Black Ferns lol 😁 ? 🥇 the girls are super primed. yeah a few NZ Cups sitting here in Australia lately with Self Assured and Copy Thats and Swayzee's all crossing over the ditch with the Aussie owners. Grant Dixon is terrific bloke though and Seymour the owner of Leap To Fame has poured a lot of money into harness racing over decades to keep it all going here, so can't begrudge him , a top horse after racing must be a thousand previously. NZ Cup looks a certainty.

That is something else. That horse on another level to any predecessors. Leap To Fame a hoof-in for the NZ Cup if Swayzee can beat Akuta there (like he did last year) Kevin Myers awesome mate. The kiwi jumpers always a great sight. I went to Ellerslie a few years for the 'Great Northern' . Nearly passed out as holding breathe for a few minutes as the magnificent animals charged the fences. Kenny Browne to the fore. 😁 and of course with the Olympics on Sir Mark Todd , a legend of New Zealand always springs to mind. CHECK Out this Jump ??😳🫣. OMG !! looks like Man from Snowy River type stuff. (they're all quite mad, it's a bit safer sitting on 2 wheels I suggest 😆) even Kevin Myers might struggle to get some over the obstacles that Mark took on around the world with Charisma (and his other great horses) and wishing the kiwi and Aussie equestrians a great olympics this time round too.

3 Quinellas , a 1st/3rd, and a 1st /4th for K Myers as well.🏆 10 jumpers in the money 💰 in the 5 Jumps races. What a Performance by that stable !! A stunning achievement , and well done to the jockeys too.

Here he is 😂 . driver Google Gav. sitting behind Stampede for a race. Seen here with his 1/2 brother and another fine Southland horseman in the sulky'. Any ideas who that team are Ranga ? even tried to take Gamma 💰 and Armalight 🏆 on at times , which was a bit of a challenge for them lol.😁

Yeah Leap To Fame is better than Swayzee as he proved this year . and has had a standing start too , where he stepped well and won easy . At the moment showing $1.50 here for the NZ Cup. (Don't Stop Dreaming $5.00 2nd Fav, Swayzee at $10 which is generous I guess after last years big win) If you have a market for the Nz Derby , Major Hot well worth an investment after impressive wins lately and QLD Derby victory last night. He will be very hard to beat for sure Addington Dec.

Grant wins the 2 year old slot race in 1.50 mile with Fate Awaits. low flying . then takes the BlacksAFake Queensland Pacing championship in must be near world record with Leap To Fame by lengths. high flying lol.😅 spose Grimson had good crack at it with 5 horses . Swayzee (the Nz Cup winner 2023) proving he is solid with 2nd place again. a clear second and there was about 6 lengths back to 3rd. no wonder NO Kiwi's bothered turning up.

Hope you guys got on ok?. The 'Major' pummelling them tonight in the Queensland Derby in the colours of David and Stacey White . What a Win !! paid $12 on TAB here so hope someone is still alive in New Zealand to enjoy it. Not a lot of posters left here at BOAY anymore? must be too ''cold' in Nz . Harness racing getting the cold shoulder all over the place lol. 😅 Congratulations To MAJOR HOT. (and Nz owners) whatta beauty he is.

Com'on Chief. You don't like anyone at present it seems lol. Not even TABman who is full of excellent knowledge. The Galah is a terrific bloke on the harness . and Nomates on the racing too. It would be great to have JJ and The Galah and Nomates and even Thomass back with their incredible knowledge and debate , as they really add something and say what they think , and aren't too brutal. Forb's may have lost the plot a bit and was under the whip, so possibly best he is spelling? lol .

Well he got 2nd, 3rd and 4th But no-where near beating Leap To Fame . Larry jogs it in the Sunshine Sprint. great stuff Grant. 🏆🇦🇺💰🌟🏆 And Grimsons arch NSW rival beat him in the other Group 1 too. Former good NZ mare Aardies Express mowed down by Luke McCarthy with his mare to win the Golden Girl. Grimson had 3 or 4 in that as well. So just a pair of seconds for the 'Grim Reaper'. New Zealand mare Manhattan closing in late for 3rd which was nice. She just can't quite crack a Big Win. another Group one placing. Great news too. !!! Canterbury Trainers David and Stacey White winning the 3 year-old pace easily with the Kennard/Gibbs/Woodham owned /Allstars horse Major Hot for New Zealand . They had bad luck not being able to race Bet N Win last week with soreness. But could win the Queensland Derby next week , with fellow NZ trainer Nathan Purdon leaving the 'Major' in their care. He is going great guns !!! I think he can do it .

Well weight of numbers can get you wins at times. even Grimson lol. NZ harness has had good success with it at times. putting a few in a race. Tas harness took it to the extreme for a while 😂. (now permanent limited to 4 from one stable there with new rule) Tonight the group 1 Sunshine Sprint at Albion Park has 10 runners. 1 x LEAP TO FAME (Larry) v 5 x Grimson Allies v 4 x Ex=pat KIWI's . Simply Sam , CantfindabettorMan, 'Turn It Up' and Taipo ( Taipo a last start 1.50 Mile winner but still 35-1 in the market 😆, how fast do you have to go these days ? lol ) They are the old kiwi runners. some are place chances for sure. Larry should 'carve this lot up' using his Miracle Mile winning form anyway.

They've been doing it at Albion for our Big carnival too . will be in action again tonight. I think it is to show whether your horse is scoring up well possibly? , and is right on the gate or in Position at the start. They usually are , as drivers get fined if trying to 'Hang Back' , so can get cover early. It does show the runners getting through from the second row quite well as the start is made at dispatch point . But as you say you can tell that from the usual side view anyway quite well really. I quite like the camera work they do in NZ where the camera zooms in on the individual runner's, as the commentator calls their name as they go down the back straight the last time at a lot of your tracks in South Island. great work by camera man , and you can get some idea how your selections are going (travelling keen or not or whatever) , and some are about to improve around field , etc.

Frivilous Freddie ? Arfur Fawkessake ? Weir the Whakawe ? Canter BelieveIt ? Whinny Wally ? Chief of the Rabble ?

Exactly right. We do that here in QLD (and most areas of Australia) all year round and is very hard to bet on . so most (including me ) don't bet on them hardly at all. (many punters betting just the Gallops with lots of carnivals and variety of horses, distances etc and better odds.). The NZ trots is still good for variety , even having Junior driver races like you mentioned for this thread, Which is totally EXCELLENT. gives the youngsters a go. Also grass tracks, wrong way round, 2 miles , big fields, lots of stuff. and yes the racing is boring in Aus generally (except feature race nights ) and short distance too, (so the horses can back up the next week ok and not be too flattened) . NZ will be running more short distance racing soon for the same reason actually. Just a footnote why the regular dates, and restricted field sizes means More wins for each horse across the year of harness racing. There are race results and probability models that show your horses chances of returning a profit, and winning a race within it's capabilities. The Handicapper uses the ratings system to enhance these prospects for the Owners. in every state. something NZ doesn't have as yet .

Fair comment. The Battlers (trainers with only a handful of horses and/or the ''occasional bush driver) aren't gunna get too involved in a Group race or those slot races. But doesn't NZ Cater for the Battlers already? with some great racing every Sunday through the year ? They seem to do a good job of it really. they can dream of a slot lol. And in the North, just give them a Regular Raceday and Night every week at Cambridge . And 2 Junior driver races every meeting to keep them young drivers interested. (the bloody amateurs can just have a non TAB race in -between the TAB races , have 2 of them even . they'll love going around twice. race for a $1000 will do them on the really slow horses lol ) You need Regular racing so the horses have a chance to pay their way and people can enjoy some wins. Problems all solved in seconds lol 😆😂 eeesy peeesy.

Well that has always happened mate. you're well on the money there. like breeders selling at sales, and trainers selling off their racing stock overseas, etc etc. The Major participants pay their way and are getting the results they deserve finally. ENTAIN boss Shannon, Chris Garrard, and Kevin Seymour = all multi millionaires who pour millions into the game (sport) to keep it going over the years . 3 of the high flyers who support breeding industry and Chris does the Horse and Hound business , and sponsors $1,000,000 + every year from his profits. (In both our countries) meanwhile, The HRNZ allocates their funding for the season , as Harness clubs do everywhere . You're not happy with How They Allocate It ?? They've got experts that do this sort of thing. They're Not flying blind. We just had a feature trot last Saturday for 3 and 4 year old trotters worth $150,000. Alas the kiwi scratched with injury but How neat a Feature was Put on . The Race by GRINS is a FEATURE Race of the International Racing Calender and if they only have to put in a piddley amount , then how good is that. The participants can pay instead. Dean Shannon currently racing Merlin , and Kevin Seymour racing Leap To Fame .am sure they are Quite happy to pay for a SLot in Slot races too. I believe Chris Garrard finally has his best horse ever too !. I'll keep you posted on progress there. Very excited to think these 3 wonderful contributors to the sport over decades, could have the 3 best horses racing. NZ Cup beckons for a couple of them soon ? bring it on 🏆😁.

What was the final score Chief ? 99-0 like TaBman said.? sounds like a All blacks v Queensland rugby score 😆😂 I guess you keep the beans as you'll need a few coffees with No races to watch at Pukekohe.☕ Sandown will more than likely still kick off though. Have one for you too. Race 6 . Number 4 Alhumbra Palace. Will out-stay that slow lot getting out in distance this time, and Shinn riding very well lately too.