The good ole days come back to Reefton.

[Special Agent]

Exactly.  I'm not sure why the TAB person thinks crowd size is irrelevant.  Probably thinks oncourse turnover is also.

[Doomed]

2 hours ago, curious said:

True for current business, however historically at least, haven't those picnic/family oriented meetings been a way that the next generation become interested in and excited about racing?

That does seem obvious to all but one of us.

[Doomed]

TAB thinks owners and punters are important but doesn't seem concerned that they spend many hundreds of dollars getting to a meeting  to watch their horse or have a punt only to discover the crowd can be counted in the hundreds. Must make them wonder why they bothered. Total lack of atmosphere.

I'm sure there are some socialites who only go to Karaka day. You wonder how much they contribute to the industry as a whole. It is fairly obvious they don't get excited enough to go to Te Rapa the next week.

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Exactly.  I'm not sure why the TAB person thinks crowd size is irrelevant.  Probably thinks oncourse turnover is also.

Oncourse turnover is less relevant nowadays however having people oncourse experiencing racing first hand and up close is very important.

Otherwise what distinguishes horse racing from buying lotto?  Where do you build the social license that the woke go on about if you don't have people experience what racing is truly about.

I doubt my interest would have been the same if it wasn't for my early childhood experiences on course at the Westland Racing Club summer meeting.  Learning the form with a race book in one hand with one of Percy Hurren's pies in the other.

[TAB For Ever]

8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Oncourse turnover is less relevant nowadays however having people oncourse experiencing racing first hand and up close is very important.

Otherwise what distinguishes horse racing from buying lotto?  Where do you build the social license that the woke go on about if you don't have people experience what racing is truly about.

I doubt my interest would have been the same if it wasn't for my early childhood experiences on course at the Westland Racing Club summer meeting.  Learning the form with a race book in one hand with one of Percy Hurren's pies in the other.

Yes oncourse turnover is less relevant these days.....all turnover is important but the hundreds & thousands who attend once a year with their chilly bins of food and booze contribute very little.

And all the previous posters are stuck in the good old days when there was nothing else to do ....there wasn't even malls to shop at plus retail was closed at the weekends.

Many are stuck in the good old days , when there was terrible dissatisfaction about the way racing was run ,how dates were allocated and how funding was distributed. NZ often had too many horses and not enough stakes to support them....and everyone agreed there were too many courses , and those in the know knew courses had to be closed but it had to be OP's...other peoples . From at least 1970 this blinding obvious. Come in Messara !

Read histories by John Costello, Finnigan, Glengarry , Dave McCarthy etc.

The good old days were really not so good ,and the poor infrastructure and facilities and lack of Investment and future planning hurts today....take a non-racing person to the races today and see what they think.

My young mates hate it....going out for several hours to watch a few horses run around a circular track once every 30 to 40 minutes is boring as hell.The other day I got involved with a survey by the TAB, basically answer 4 questions re raceday experience and get $10 free into TAB account.I was surprised 3 of 8 at table had no TAB account , I prompted them to talk about the facilities...paint chipping off seats ,bird poo on others ,terrible state of toilets etc ......it doesnt really cut the mustard. Average food , shitty coffee etc .The big screen faltered for a while ,most there were lucky if they saw a horse flash past. 

The TAB obviously pushing for folk to bet on phones to remove staff etc especially with all bonus bets to open Account etc.

I've been around NZ racing a while , I doubt many on here would match longevity ,and being a South Islander I've seen how the Clubs and racing people who  say they care have sat by a watched it slowly but surely go down the gurgler.

I note most of the biggest moaners on here are from the South Island OR have close association/affiliation to it.

Remember the South used to have the Derby and Oaks .....very lucky to hang on to the 1000and 2000 guines.Virtually lost all jumping . Wingatui training centre a shadow of former self , Forbury Park closed. Nelson gallops gone since 1980's but people still pine over this. Marlborough mentioned ,the Coast talked about fondly and the Nuggets at Kumara still iconic.Some clubs seem to be run out of another town so hardly pushing local involvement. Mike from Blenheim used to keep a lot of Southern Trotting afloat until they nailed him ! Praise the lord for NZ Cup week !

NZTR HRNZ ,TAB done a great job at keeping these Holiday picnic meetings going...I never missed , Waikouaiti , Omakau [ they had 2-days Gallops ,Roxborugh Cromwell , Nelson , Blenheim Oamaru/Timaru......loved em . But most for a picnic  ......like many I favour boating ,fishing and watching on phone or TV and doing other things. And many from the good old days can't afford the petrol now to attend. Inflation and cost of living have finished them...they consider themselves punters...$1 each way and a 50 cent double. Even went yo Tapanui where viewing was on a mound of dirt ,and Beaumont where horses went into a dip where the stipes couldnt see [no stipes then  !]

The top 2 % of punters do 60 % of turnover in NZ.

Field sizes were often tiny back in the day...how many remember when Waikouaiti and Wyndam both had gallops on New Years Day and  even Fielding and Wairarapa and possibly Hawkes Bay ! And remember that classic race at Trentham  NZ St Leger when it had 4 starters..Guest Star ,Fury's Order , Sobeit and Jackaroo.

Well possums ,I hope you enjoyed my one post for the day ....Oh , The Newmarket connection to Scotland [ which has a few course only ] was a JOKE ! Haha...it originally was used for Paris when I in USA......is that Paris in Texas  OR Paris , Italy ! FFS

 

 

 

 

[Freda]

You'd remember Laurie Sutherland then?

[Chief Stipe]

7 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Yes oncourse turnover is less relevant these days.....all turnover is important but the hundreds & thousands who attend once a year with their chilly bins of food and booze contribute very little.

I'll try not to comment on the rest of your post as it is rose tinted glass nonsense looking in the wrong direction.

But I do take issue with your comment that that the "hundreds and thousands who attend once a year with their chilly bins of food and booze contribute very little*.

Many are owners and racing enthusiasts who are on holiday and take their families along for a day out from the beach or the Bach.  Or locals that get their once a year close up experience of racing that they remember all year again with the family in tow.  They also bring their mates and their families some who may never have been to a race meeting before.  What other sport offers such an enjoyable introduction?  You don't need to be able to hold a tennis racquet or a golf club and sip Chardonnay between swings.

Don't forget the local enthusiast volunteer club members who put on the show.  Most who have a share in a horse.

If the future of racing doesn't come from the seeds that are sown from what is largely a very enjoyable summer day out where does it come from?

BTW you don't write like a TAB or racing administrator although you appear to promote their misguided marketing strategies.  You write more like a cost accountant.

 

[curious]

7 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

The top 2 % of punters do 60 % of turnover in NZ.

More useful data in relation to this discussion would be how many of those were introduced to racing in their younger years? Presumably that was researched before decisions reducing opportunity for this were reached.

Edited January 4 by curious

[Chief Stipe]

7 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

The top 2 % of punters do 60 % of turnover in NZ.

Turnover is not the key measure.  What is the yield on that turnover?

[Doomed]

7 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

 

Many are stuck in the good old days , when there was terrible dissatisfaction about the way racing was run ,how dates were allocated and how funding was distributed. NZ often had too many horses and not enough stakes to support them....and everyone agreed there were too many courses , and those in the know knew courses had to be closed but it had to be OP's...other peoples . From at least 1970 this blinding obvious. Come in Messara !

The good old days were really not so good ,and the poor infrastructure and facilities and lack of Investment and future planning hurts today....take a non-racing person to the races today and see what they think. until they nailed him ! Praise the lord for NZ Cup week !y

 

 

 

I would be interested in some examples of the dissatisfaction over dates and funding allocation etc. From my memory the dissatisfaction was usually over the poor performance of the major clubs such as Auckland, Te Rapa. Trentham and Riccarton. The innovators in those days were usually the smaller clubs with enlightened administrators such as Counties, Levin, Geraldine etc, even Tauranga was innovative in those days.

Most of the dissatisfaction over dates revolved around Auckland trying to run roughshod over the rights of other clubs, notably trying to push Wgtn off their cup dates to run big races on Auck anniversary weekend. 

I find it a bit bizarre to blame today's poor infrastructure on the failings of the 80s. In those days there was an amenities fund which build grandstands at Ellerslie, New Plymouth, Riccarton, Banks Pen, Ashburton, Omoto etc, lights at Avondale, and even a brand new race course at Ruakaka.

Since the model has changed I don't recall many major infrastructure projects at all. The AWTs were funded through a dubious bit of pork barrel politics.

And numerous racecourses were either closed during that period, or the clubs racing at them went out of business: Masterton, Levin, Fielding, Bulls, Marton, Nelson, Westport, Hororata, Beaumont, Tapanui, Orari etc.. They mostly closed through natural attrition rather than being forced out due to a fleeting ideological movement.

And there were some very good administrators during those days at the likes of Counties, Tauranga, Awapuni, Ashburton etc, many of whom would be shocked to see the way things have turned out.

Even the TAB was well run and respected in those days.

I think many would put the decline of the racing industry down to the mid 90s and the years thereafter rather than the period TAB refers to.

[Freda]

Top post.

[Chief Stipe]

A very close friend of mine has recently bought into their first horse - on my persistent advice I must say.

I've tagged along vicariously living the moments she is experiencing.  

So far along this journey I've seen things that have done nothing to change my opinions on what has gone wrong with the game.

I'll share a couple of examples:

1.  Ruakaka every race meeting has a free bus service that goes from pub to pub in Whangarei picking up enthusiasts (and newcomers) and drops them oncourse half an hour before the first race.  It then takes them all home well drops them off at each pub.  The club wins, the pub's win, the punter wins, the TAB wins, the industry wins.  

2.  Trentham - the Champagne Turf - one of NZTR'S favoured tracks.  Raceday - on my recommendation turns up to catch the train from Wellington to Trentham.  Trains replaced by Buses.  Cost $16 return.  Only one full bus (Ruakaka often  have THREE full buses).  They only decided at the last moment to put on a bus that went direct otherwise the bus would have take 90 minutes and stopped at every stop in the Hutt's.  The return bus did just that.  Luckily my friend made friends with some racing enthusiasts on the way out who upon realising what would happen going home quickly organised a mini-bus to go directly back to Wellington

She gets oncourse at Wellington and finds that there is a pile of rubble and dirt obscuring the first 400m of the 1200m race.  The only option being to look at the big screen or on a smart phone.

3.  Te Aroha - my friend decides to go and watch her horse race there this week.  A beautiful course whose committee has been battered black and blue over the last 3 years by abandonment and recalcitrant NZTR officials. The course was in fantastic condition improving from 140ml of rain in the previous 4 days to end up a G3 by race 2.  Picnic atmosphere - kids and families everywhere having a ball.  No big TV screen but you could see the 1200m start and one of the longest straights in the country.  

So in the space of less than a month my new to sport friend has seen the upper echelon and the country Christmas meet.  She found both to be wonderful experiences but I'm sure Te Aroha has special memories because she could get really close to her horse, the Jockeys and Trainers. She enjoyed the best paua pattie "EVER" and a great chat with the sponsors of the race who sponsored it for two old mates, stalwarts of the club, who had passed away recently.  Not a fascinator in sight but heaps of sandals shorts and jandals.

Where would she rather watch her horse run?  

As another aside a friend of hers took a picture of her talking to a stranger in the birdcage.  The photographer knew who the person was and said "do you know who this famous person is you are speaking to?" "No" was the reply.  She was introduced - "...meet Frank Ritchie - a champion trainer".  He replied - "champion horses make champion trainers".  First time owner has a nice chat with the trainer of Bonecrusher before he goes to leg up the jockey in a maiden race at a little country meeting at New Years.

Needless to say she is hooked!

[Doomed]

32 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

A very close friend of mine has recently bought into their first horse - on my persistent advice I must say.

I've tagged along vicariously living the moments she is experiencing.  

So far along this journey I've seen things that have done nothing to change my opinions on what has gone wrong with the game.

I'll share a couple of examples:

1.  Ruakaka every race meeting has a free bus service that goes from pub to pub in Whangarei picking up enthusiasts (and newcomers) and drops them oncourse half an hour before the first race.  It then takes them all home well drops them off at each pub.  The club wins, the pub's win, the punter wins, the TAB wins, the industry wins.  

2.  Trentham - the Champagne Turf - one of NZTR'S favoured tracks.  Raceday - on my recommendation turns up to catch the train from Wellington to Trentham.  Trains replaced by Buses.  Cost $16 return.  Only one full bus (Ruakaka often  have THREE full buses).  They only decided at the last moment to put on a bus that went direct otherwise the bus would have take 90 minutes and stopped at every stop in the Hutt's.  The return bus did just that.  Luckily my friend made friends with some racing enthusiasts on the way out who upon realising what would happen going home quickly organised a mini-bus to go directly back to Wellington

She gets oncourse at Wellington and finds that there is a pile of rubble and dirt obscuring the first 400m of the 1200m race.  The only option being to look at the big screen or on a smart phone.

3.  Te Aroha - my friend decides to go and watch her horse race there this week.  A beautiful course whose committee has been battered black and blue over the last 3 years by abandonment and recalcitrant NZTR officials. The course was in fantastic condition improving from 140ml of rain in the previous 4 days to end up a G3 by race 2.  Picnic atmosphere - kids and families everywhere having a ball.  No big TV screen but you could see the 1200m start and one of the longest straights in the country.  

So in the space of less than a month my new to sport friend has seen the upper echelon and the country Christmas meet.  She found both to be wonderful experiences but I'm sure Te Aroha has special memories because she could get really close to her horse, the Jockeys and Trainers. She enjoyed the best paua pattie "EVER" and a great chat with the sponsors of the race who sponsored it for two old mates, stalwarts of the club, who had passed away recently.  Not a fascinator in sight but heaps of sandals shorts and jandals.

Where would she rather watch her horse run?  

As another aside a friend of hers took a picture of her talking to a stranger in the birdcage.  The photographer knew who the person was and said "do you know who this famous person is you are speaking to?" "No" was the reply.  She was introduced - "...meet Frank Ritchie - a champion trainer".  He replied no champion horses make champion trainers".  First time owner has a nice chat with the trainer of Bonecrusher before he goes to leg up the jockey in a maiden race at a little country meeting at New Years.

Needless to say she is hooked!

Wait till she goes to Karaka night and gets to mix with all the influencers. She will never go country racing again.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

Wait till she goes to Karaka night and gets to mix with all the influencers. She will never go country racing again.

Well the irony of that comment is that many of the big trainers were at Te Aroha.

Don't get me wrong the industry needs the big days as well appealing to a different group.

The industry needs a balance.

Focus on the tracks first - as the country race clubs show you don't need flash facilities to provide an enjoyable experience.

[Shad]

I'd rather a small country meeting anyday, as said your so close to the action, the atmosphere usually always great, if you want you get closer to the action down on the fence, you go to riccarton seems like hardly a crowd unless a big feature meeting, so no atmosphere, the horses seem a mile away, so best option to watch a monitor, I mean one may as well stay home and  see more in your lounge, with a drink an cigarillo, which would you choose.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Shad said:

I'd rather a small country meeting anyday, as said your so close to the action, the atmosphere usually always great, if you want you get closer to the action down on the fence, you go to riccarton seems like hardly a crowd unless a big feature meeting, so no atmosphere, the horses seem a mile away, so best option to watch a monitor, I mean one may as well stay home and  see more in your lounge, with a drink an cigarillo, which would you choose.

I can say that I chose not to go to Riccarton recently to even watch my own horse race at a major meeting. Preferred to stay home and watch, like you say have a beer and a ciggy, but most important watch with who I wanted to and actually have better vision of the race live.

[Chief Stipe]

The team at Te Aroha filling in the divets.

 

[Chief Stipe]

The facilities are fantastic!

 

[Shad]

4 hours ago, curious said:

I can say that I chose not to go to Riccarton recently to even watch my own horse race at a major meeting. Preferred to stay home and watch, like you say have a beer and a ciggy, but most important watch with who I wanted to and actually have better vision of the race live.

Bit of a tougher decision when you have one racing, especially if they win and you miss out in the photo opportunity, think  I traveled twice to see our boy race, once was in the cup, but riccarton was never his go, but mostly saved myself a long drive and the comfort of my own chair, reefton next week action doesn't get much closer than that, noms look promising at this stage, fingers crossed they get a full day in and no repeat of last years debacle, felt sorry for the club who had done everything right and prepared for as well as one could, but unfortunately the decision was taken from out of their hands, good luck if you've got anything racing.

[TAB For Ever]

16 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'll try not to comment on the rest of your post as it is rose tinted glass nonsense looking in the wrong direction.

But I do take issue with your comment that that the "hundreds and thousands who attend once a year with their chilly bins of food and booze contribute very little*.

Many are owners and racing enthusiasts who are on holiday and take their families along for a day out from the beach or the Bach.  Or locals that get their once a year close up experience of racing that they remember all year again with the family in tow.  They also bring their mates and their families some who may never have been to a race meeting before.  What other sport offers such an enjoyable introduction?  You don't need to be able to hold a tennis racquet or a golf club and sip Chardonnay between swings.

Don't forget the local enthusiast volunteer club members who put on the show.  Most who have a share in a horse.

If the future of racing doesn't come from the seeds that are sown from what is largely a very enjoyable summer day out where does it come from?

BTW you don't write like a TAB or racing administrator although you appear to promote their misguided marketing strategies.  You write more like a cost accountant.

 

Evening team....I was gonna dedicate my daily post to the decline and further decline of South Island racing but today's Ruakaka meeting stirred up some old memories of racing up North. Even tho a Mainlander I did have some involvement with Racing in Kauri Land , which may surprise  those who question my longevity ! 
Firstly some TAB mates reminded me of some Turnover/ profit numbers which the Cost Accountant in me will need to chew on.

One thing I know for sure is that as a small owner the returns in stakes averaged about 25% of Costs tho Entain and recent stake increases hoping to improve it. And my ventures into Breeding have even been worse ! 

The talk about introducing non-racing folk to picnic racing and growing the industry is misguided .....a myth as Messara explained it.

On course betting accounts for less than 3% of turnover , and the TAB is pushing strong for everyone to have an account and do phone/online  betting. Melbourne Cup figures show that non-racing folk are quite happy to bet once a year and enjoy the picnic outing with their chilli bins.

Karaka Night is approaching....the doomer and gloomers will be getting stuck into that on their keyboards. I hope its a good night and wish the Boys Get Paid group well.Intially I joined that ,thought it excellent and I see their betting pool has reached $300,00 k from some 15,000 people or more...pretty good really ! Fingers crossed the track not too hard , watering it immediately before the race will set the internet buzzing ! 

Whatever the crowd ,it won't quite match that of the West Coast....who could ever forget the day the Coast picnic races had more on course than Ellerslie !

Phew.....doomers continually are exasperated with the lack of races and ballots for horses in the South Island.....I OWN UP...I'm contributing to this issue. A couple of mates talked me into taking a share in a slow Northern horse to race in the South and I agreed . Sadly this horse is now a slow mainlander. If it gets balloted I'm gonna be upset.So I've checked a few races of late and in many races I have found them full of Northern rejects plus the odd slow one still trained in North...geez ! Folk are aware of the issue but are continuing to make it worse.  

Re Ruakaka.....Whangarei Racing Club took the amazing move to the surf at Ruakaka on Friday May 27 1977 ,built the new course. First race was a Hurdle race .Winners included  Blue Blood , Battle Fury , High Saint while Uncle Remus ,GRogerson, NTiley ,RVance Cattle King ,Heidsieck etc all took part. They budgeted for 3000 cars , got 5000 ! A lot of work in building the course was done by volunteers and materials were carted from Course in City.
Also in my memory are the few years after that and at this time of year...January 5  ,Cambridge Trots , then on Saturday Thames , Woodville , Kurow and Southland gallops , and Greymouth night trots.

The good old days........that will excite those living in the past ! The 1970's when the South Island decline really took off and those there just stood by !

 

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

The talk about introducing non-racing folk to picnic racing and growing the industry is misguided .....a myth as Messara explained it.

Where did Messara say that?  Much that he wrote was Mythical.

[holy ravioli]

23 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Turnover is not the key measure.  What is the yield on that turnover?

Turnover is most definitely the key issue.🙄

[curious]

26 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

Turnover is most definitely the key issue.🙄

No it's not. Revenue is. Both current and future. That requires participants interested enough to lose or spend money in return for the enjoyment.

[holy ravioli]

1 hour ago, curious said:

No it's not. Revenue is. Both current and future. That requires participants interested enough to lose or spend money in return for the enjoyment.

How do you produce revenue without...turnover?

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, holy ravioli said:

Turnover is most definitely the key issue.🙄

Every heard of profit?  Yield?  Revenue?

You can turnover all you want but I'd you are not making a profit then you go broke.  A novel concept for you we know.

Many commentators  have the misconception that every dollar of turnover returns a profit.  It doesn't.  That's what they ban some punters like @Brodie

In the past we have suffered from TAB Senior Managers who suffered from the same illusion but it served then well because they based the size of their salaries on turnover.