Arsenic Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 To be perfectly honest you guys don’t deserve an industry , it’s like this hasn’t happened in yours eyes. I have been involved in the harness for some 40 odd years , love to have a good punt on them but that is definitely finished it punting and racing wise. Do you guys not understand that what these people have been doing is stealing money off the very people who keep harness going as an industry. It is the punter that drives your industry and they have been fleecing them. I looked back at the account at when this surfaced and from what I read the police have recordings fo some 18 months. Thats a very deep well , I would suspect a lot more to come out. I hope all these people involved get jail and thrown out of the harness industry for life. This will absolutely fuck the harness code bigtime. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Counter Punch Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 23 minutes ago, Arsenic said: To be perfectly honest you guys don’t deserve an industry , it’s like this hasn’t happened in yours eyes. I have been involved in the harness for some 40 odd years , love to have a good punt on them but that is definitely finished it punting and racing wise. Do you guys not understand that what these people have been doing is stealing money off the very people who keep harness going as an industry. It is the punter that drives your industry and they have been fleecing them. I looked back at the account at when this surfaced and from what I read the police have recordings fo some 18 months. Thats a very deep well , I would suspect a lot more to come out. I hope all these people involved get jail and thrown out of the harness industry for life. This will absolutely fuck the harness code bigtime. Wrong. This won't f*ck the harness code big time. We are talking about a group of around a dozen people. Roughly 1 per cent of the harness racing population. Yes, they may be high profile, and yes they may be successful - but if found to be guilty on what is being alleged the code will be all the better for any departures. People said the same about Blue Magic, it was going to bring the industry to it's knees. It didn't. However, in saying that - there are other issues which will be of more concern going forward for the industry that have a much higher chance of, as you so eloquently put it, f*cking the code ie' breeding numbers, handicapping systems, poor management etc. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 25 minutes ago, Arsenic said: I hope all these people involved get jail and thrown out of the harness industry for life. If true, couldn't agree more. 25 minutes ago, Arsenic said: This will absolutely fuck the harness code bigtime. Highly debatable. It seemed to continue on without too much of a hiccup when they were all suspended. Sadly, there are probably bigger issues facing the industry if that is possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 43 minutes ago, Arsenic said: I looked back at the account at when this surfaced and from what I read the police have recordings fo some 18 months. there is another way to look at that 44 minutes ago, Arsenic said: I hope all these people involved get jail and thrown out of the harness industry for life. i reckon neither will happen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 44 minutes ago, Counter Punch said: Wrong. This won't f*ck the harness code big time. We are talking about a group of around a dozen people. Roughly 1 per cent of the harness racing population. Yes, they may be high profile, and yes they may be successful - but if found to be guilty on what is being alleged the code will be all the better for any departures. People said the same about Blue Magic, it was going to bring the industry to it's knees. It didn't. However, in saying that - there are other issues which will be of more concern going forward for the industry that have a much higher chance of, as you so eloquently put it, f*cking the code ie' breeding numbers, handicapping systems, poor management etc. Agree with what you have said. Those involved have,and will continue to be effected bigtime by way of diminished reputation, paying ongoing legal fees,and already lost income. If convicted I think it unlikely anyone would go to jail,but I guess you never know as they are very serious offences. As I have said previously, the most disappointing thing about the current situation has been the arrogance and ignorance shown by many within the industry, about the resulting consequences for punters and fellow participants of such alleged actions. Also of concern is the continued failure of north island stipes to protect the punters when it comes to looking into possible integrity issues relating to the running of recent races. The harness racing industry is unique in that so many are related,and im sure the reason so many complain about action taken against one of their own is because they see it as an attack on what they deem as acceptable,and its clear from the current situation that what many within the industry deem acceptable is sometimes dishonest. In many ways the caretakers of honesty on the track is the responsibility of the stipes. I said it at the time and will say it again, Dunn should have been charged with the eamon maguire drive,Anderson should have been charged with the johnny white drive but they weren't. Had that happened and had the stipes actually applied the same rules to everyone,not just the a lowes of this world then we would not be where we are at today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) This is dragging on for a ridiculous length of time,but I fortunately this is the NZ law system. There have been all sorts of rumours going around and some are probably true and some are probably not! From what I have read and then watched race replays, there is absolutely nothing in it whatsoever, however ai am not privy to any telephone recordings. The so-called Johnny White races at Nelson, there is totally nothing wrong with it. First day Johnny White would never have beaten the Court runner Whether it was in front or not. Second day after being lambasted by several people for going back on the first day, Matt Anderson decided to go forward and lead. Every race there are drivers that drive horses different to what they previously have!!!!! The sooner the better that the so-called evidence is produced the better! I do not beleive that there will be many that get found guilty and as you know Brodie is always on the money, if not this time then Brodie has egg on his face!!! Edited November 29, 2018 by Brodie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Brodie said: I do not beleive that there will be many that get found guilty and as you know Brodie is always on the money, if not this time then Brodie has egg on his face!!! money or the egg i choose money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenic Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Totally disagree , with the blue magic wasn’t that just 1 person but supplying trainers and one of those trainers involved in this as well. Never change it’s spots. This you have the country’s leading drivers involved. One would think by the time this plays out in court your punter base could very well have moved on to throughbreds or Greyhounds . Without your punter base or trust within the game your dead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, Brodie said: This is dragging on for a ridiculous length of time,but I fortunately this is the NZ law system. There have been all sorts of rumours going around and some are probably true and some are probably not! From what I have read and then watched race replays, there is absolutely nothing in it whatsoever, however ai am not privy to any telephone recordings. The so-called Johnny White races at Nelson, there is totally nothing wrong with it. First day Johnny White would never have beaten the Court runner Whether it was in front or not. Second day after being lambasted by several people for going back on the first day, Matt Anderson decided to go forward and lead. Every race there are drivers that drive horses different to what they previously have!!!!! The sooner the better that the so-called evidence is produced the better! I do not beleive that there will be many that get found guilty and as you know Brodie is always on the money, if not this time then Brodie has egg on his face!!! For once I agree with Brodie. Going to hard to prove unless there is thousands of dollars being made behind the scenes we do not know about matched up with phone conversations. Can only wait for the evidence to present itself. All other assumptions from both sides are pointless until then . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Arsenic said: Totally disagree , with the blue magic wasn’t that just 1 person but supplying trainers and one of those trainers involved in this as well. i reckon you are 100% incorrect there Edited November 29, 2018 by Rangatira 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, Brodie said: . The so-called Johnny White races at Nelson, there is totally nothing wrong with it. First day Johnny White would never have beaten the Court runner Whether it was in front or not. Second day after being lambasted by several people for going back on the first day, Matt Anderson decided to go forward and lead. Every race there are drivers that drive horses different to what they previously have!!!!! ! Completely disagree with you there brodie. I think your reply is clear bias for those involved, not a detached opinion of what happened. Brodie not on the money here,,in my opinion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 6 minutes ago, Nowornever said: For once I agree with Brodie. Going to hard to prove unless there is thousands of dollars being made behind the scenes we do not know about matched up with phone conversations. Can only wait for the evidence to present itself. All other assumptions from both sides are pointless until then . Have you read the legislation? No money needs to be made behind the scenes - there can simply be a loss to others for a "fix" to be proved .... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, Taku Umanga said: Have you read the legislation? No money needs to be made behind the scenes - there can simply be a loss to others for a "fix" to be proved .... That is the problem. Money is lost by punters in every race. If driver Z makes a statement on TV he is going forward at the start and then goes back instead, then by your definition that could be a fix because someone lost money. Proving there is a fix and not just a driver saying what they think will happen is going to be the difficult part. I think the police will find this out the hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenic Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 58 minutes ago, Rangatira said: i reckon you are 100% incorrect there Inform us all why I’m wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 38 minutes ago, Nowornever said: That is the problem. Money is lost by punters in every race. If driver Z makes a statement on TV he is going forward at the start and then goes back instead, then by your definition that could be a fix because someone lost money. Proving there is a fix and not just a driver saying what they think will happen is going to be the difficult part. I think the police will find this out the hard way. Not if (for example) they have recorded conversations of driver Z agreeing to ensure their horse (say the favourite) will finish outside the first four placings .... that means that every punter that's included that horse in their betting combinations has lost money - not to mention the owner and trainer of said horse. From all accounts, this is not about publicly made statements but about secret recordings of implicated parties. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, Arsenic said: Inform us all why I’m wrong none of the original 12 charged as a result of operation inca fit your theory unless you mean by way of unsubstantiated rumours at the time at this stage i have no idea who the 13th man is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Taku Umanga said: Not if (for example) they have recorded conversations of driver Z agreeing to ensure their horse (say the favourite) will finish outside the first four placings .... that means that every punter that's included that horse in their betting combinations has lost money - not to mention the owner and trainer of said horse. From all accounts, this is not about publicly made statements but about secret recordings of implicated parties. I agree if there is a contract type arrangement then that would be pretty cut and driedand they will do time for sure, but if it is just driver Z saying he does not think his horse can finish in the first four (even if it is favourite) then the lawyers will cite any number of TV statements of drivers saying similar things. Like I said in an earlier post we can only wait for the evidence to present itself. All other assumptions from both sides are pointless until then . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Counter Punch Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rangatira said: none of the original 12 charged as a result of operation inca fit your theory unless you mean by way of unsubstantiated rumours at the time at this stage i have no idea who the 13th man is He's right. One of those involved with Inca, was involved in Blue Magic. And did time for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Nowornever said: Like I said in an earlier post we can only wait for the evidence to present itself. All other assumptions from both sides are pointless until then . On that we can agree 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Counter Punch said: He's right. One of those involved with Inca, was involved in Blue Magic. And did time for it. not true remembering he said "with the blue magic wasn’t that just 1 person but supplying trainers and one of those trainers involved in this as well" trust me i am 100% right here i would even stake brodies reputation on it Edited November 29, 2018 by Rangatira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenic Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, Rangatira said: not true remembering he said "with the blue magic wasn’t that just 1 person but supplying trainers and one of those trainers involved in this as well" trust me i am 100% right here i would even stake brodies reputation on it One person supplying b m and several trainers using including 1 trainer involved in this investigation. Do you not realise these people have been charged with an offence . This isn’t unsubstantiated rumours, this is real life and these people are up the creek without a paddle. No wonder this codes in disarray 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Arsenic said: One person supplying b m and several trainers using including 1 trainer involved in this investigation. Do you not realise these people have been charged with an offence . This isn’t unsubstantiated rumours, this is real life and these people are up the creek without a paddle. No wonder this codes in disarray confusing mumbo jumbo i am not sure if you are talking about 2004 or 2018 lol Edited November 30, 2018 by Rangatira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, Arsenic said: One person supplying b m and several trainers using including 1 trainer involved in this investigation. can only be the 13th person charged and that person is described as "“That person is known in the industry" which makes me think its not a trainer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rangatira said: can only be the 13th person charged and that person is described as "“That person is known in the industry" which makes me think its not a trainer GK mentioned on the Turn It Up Podcast that the newly charged person is not a licence holder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenic Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 30 minutes ago, Rangatira said: confusing mumbo jumbo i am not sure if you are talking about 2004 or 2018 lol Lol . Your the prime example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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