TAB / Betcha…. Please Gamble Responsibly!

[Special Agent]

3 minutes ago, hesi said:

Adding to this, Lotto has only one tool to assist in betting responsibly 'Spend Limits"

I've often thought about what TAB accounts would look like with limits applied.  I suspect the Lotto limits are online only, but don't know.

[hesi]

There you go

Can only be online

Spend limits are changing | Lotto NZ | Lotto New Zealand

[Special Agent]

Easier to jam up your computer than tap you on the shoulder at a Lotto outlet.

[hesi]

I guess the TAB has an advantage, in that so much has moved to online.  About 50 outlets left and 400 pubs and clubs, which are self-service.

Whereas 1400 Lotto outlets

So the tools for problem gambling can be used more effectively.

As you say, shoulder tapping could be hazardous lol

Edited 21 hours ago by hesi

[mikeynz]

Many who play lotto would never bet on horses, reason, no massive pools to tempt people into bothering, wouldn't think lotto is a problem, 2 draws a week, 

[Newmarket]

7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's somewhat of an extreme generalisation. The fact is up until ENTAIN arrived on the scene you have made no posts on gambling harm to young gamblers.  

Yet the moment you are restricted in where and how much you can wager you are all over it and pleading for the welfare of your kids and grandkids.  You may well describe comments nonsense written by someone calling out the irony and hypocricsy of your new found stance.

Not to mention of course that you are not prepared to state what the nonsense is!!

But hang on…..

I am sure you will remember…. but one of the main points to stop NZ punters betting overseas, was overseas operators where not looking after NZ problem gamblers habits…. what a load of shit. As i have said, Aus operators always sent a monthly statement showing win/loss…. Betcha & TAB never do this, have to look at statement which only shows all bets, deposits & withdrawals…. not a win / loss statement. Since Entain has been onboard, we are bombarded with TV advertising targeting new punters…. its a disgrace. 

[Newmarket]

5 hours ago, hesi said:

I guess the TAB has an advantage, in that so much has moved to online.  About 50 outlets left and 400 pubs and clubs, which are self-service.

Whereas 1400 Lotto outlets

So the tools for problem gambling can be used more effectively.

As you say, shoulder tapping could be hazardous lol

But you cant compare lotto, majority spend only on the Weds & Sat, so 2 lotto draws. Compare that with hundreds of races each day 24/7, from any desperate track in the world, who cares where. 

[Newmarket]

6 hours ago, Special Agent said:

I've often thought about what TAB accounts would look like with limits applied.  I suspect the Lotto limits are online only, but don't know.

Yes, lotto limits are online, i only play a few lines each week so doesnt bother me…..

You make a good point, if Betcha / TAB were doing their job, anyone having a bad run for a few months should at least be contacted, i know nobody that has been contacted, they are a fraud. 
Remember Steel Balls, TAB knew he had issues, rumours were well around town and everyone knew he was credit betting…. FFS when the shit really hit the fan he was at a VIP TAB sporting event…. couldnt give a shit as just wanted turnover…. but wow, did the TAB run for cover after it all come out. Only met the guy twice years ago, but always thought he was treated badly by the TAB. Was a guy in Christchurch that was involved in the travel industry which also had issues, have many others. Need to do more, young kids have already been used to playing online games, with some you can buy products to advance…. next thing these guys get to 18yo, start betting on sports… hooked bigtime.

[hesi]

2 hours ago, Newmarket said:

But you cant compare lotto, majority spend only on the Weds & Sat, so 2 lotto draws. Compare that with hundreds of races each day 24/7, from any desperate track in the world, who cares where. 

It is still gambling and can lead on to more serious gambling

[Huey]

9 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Yes, lotto limits are online, i only play a few lines each week so doesnt bother me…..

You make a good point, if Betcha / TAB were doing their job, anyone having a bad run for a few months should at least be contacted, i know nobody that has been contacted, they are a fraud. 
Remember Steel Balls, TAB knew he had issues, rumours were well around town and everyone knew he was credit betting…. FFS when the shit really hit the fan he was at a VIP TAB sporting event…. couldnt give a shit as just wanted turnover…. but wow, did the TAB run for cover after it all come out. Only met the guy twice years ago, but always thought he was treated badly by the TAB. Was a guy in Christchurch that was involved in the travel industry which also had issues, have many others. Need to do more, young kids have already been used to playing online games, with some you can buy products to advance…. next thing these guys get to 18yo, start betting on sports… hooked bigtime.

Don't worry there will be facial recognition or something of the sort on the way to spoil it all.

[Chief Stipe]

12 hours ago, Newmarket said:

I am sure you will remember…. but one of the main points to stop NZ punters betting overseas, was overseas operators where not looking after NZ problem gamblers habits…. what a load of shit.

@Newmarket you are starting to sound like an addict that has suddenly been cut off.  You've repeatedly told us that in protest you have cut your betting substantially so it appears the new restrictions are working for you.  Great news.
 

12 hours ago, Newmarket said:

As i have said, Aus operators always sent a monthly statement showing win/loss…. Betcha & TAB never do this, have to look at statement which only shows all bets, deposits & withdrawals…. not a win / loss statement.

Really a win/loss statement is going to make a difference to a "problem gambler"?  Obviously it kept you in check - NOT!  Or were the statements sent to your partner?

12 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Since Entain has been onboard, we are bombarded with TV advertising targeting new punters…. its a disgrace. 

Of course we never ever had gambling advertising on TV until ENTAIN came along.  What about the syrupy long LOTTO advertisements that have been bombarding us for decades promoting the chance to win big and change your lifestyle?

@Newmarket it is blindingly that you have a new chip on your shoulder and you are pissed off about not being able to bet overseas.  So just like @Huey rather than participate positively you just want to throw your toys and trash the house.

[hesi]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

@Newmarket you are starting to sound like an addict that has suddenly been cut off.  You've repeatedly told us that in protest you have cut your betting substantially so it appears the new restrictions are working for you.  Great news.
 

Really a win/loss statement is going to make a difference to a "problem gambler"?  Obviously it kept you in check - NOT!  Or were the statements sent to your partner?

Of course we never ever had gambling advertising on TV until ENTAIN came along.  What about the syrupy long LOTTO advertisements that have been bombarding us for decades promoting the chance to win big and change your lifestyle?

@Newmarket it is blindingly that you have a new chip on your shoulder and you are pissed off about not being able to bet overseas.  So just like @Huey rather than participate positively you just want to throw your toys and trash the house.

Ads, that never had a warning to gamble responsibly, that all TAB ads have

[Chief Stipe]

13 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Yes, lotto limits are online, i only play a few lines each week so doesnt bother me…..

A few lines of what?

13 hours ago, Newmarket said:

You make a good point, if Betcha / TAB were doing their job, anyone having a bad run for a few months should at least be contacted, i know nobody that has been contacted, they are a fraud. 

The simplest way to fix those that you know that are "having a bad run for few months" would be to tell them to stop following your punting tips.  What do you quantify as "a bad run" anyway?

13 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Remember Steel Balls, TAB knew he had issues, rumours were well around town and everyone knew he was credit betting…. FFS when the shit really hit the fan he was at a VIP TAB sporting event…. couldnt give a shit as just wanted turnover…. but wow, did the TAB run for cover after it all come out.

FFS @Newmarket that was over 20 years ago!  Of course you conflate a lot of things to boost your story.  Graham Bruton aka Steel Balls had a very very long winning streak fuelled in part by his large share in Lyell Creek - essentially he was gambling with his harness stake money.  Yet you have argued on BOAY that the betting limit restrictions on winners is bad!  Make your mind up!

As for the credit betting episode that was an issue with one Agency Owner who was a friend of Brutons.  The Agency owner allowed him to bet on credit and when Bruton couldn't square up and the Owner couldn't either the Agency Owner was given the boot as it was against TAB policy rules.  Of course credit betting is not be confused with using your credit card to put a bet on.

Bruton started to unravel when he started punting on Super Rugby and he kept doubling up on the Brumbies in 2002 who he backed in the final against the Crusaders to win $500,000.  Unfortunately in the last mintues of the game in one of the best defensive displays in the history of rugby Merthens kicked the match winning goal.  The story goes Bruton got up off his couch and said to his mates he was going for a walk - they picked him up at Raikaia!

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned my Great Uncle from the 1970's who was a bigger punter than Bruton.  He had a special access to the back of the tote to make his bets.  Unfortunately one of his cheques bounced one day and he had to borrow several thousand dollars off his nephew.  Oh those were the days when men were men, women were glad and sheep were scared.

13 hours ago, Newmarket said:

couldnt give a shit as just wanted turnover…. but wow, did the TAB run for cover after it all come out.

They didn't want turnover the TAB wanted to win back what they had lost.  A concept @Brodie doesn't wish to understand.  Actually @Brodie is a problem gambler - that is he is a problem for the TAB being, unlike yourself, a very disciplined punter who I'm told has taken the TAB for millions.  The TAB didn't run for cover.  The Agency Owner was sacked.   Plus the TAB tightened the balancing rules closing a loop hole making credit bets less likely to go unnoticed until up to 24 hours after betting.  That loop hole worked as long as the punter paid up between the two balance times.  

I'm surprised you didn't further conflate your "story" by referring to the Mick Guerin episode where he rang the agency below his flat and places a $1,000 bet which he didn't pay until 15 minutes later but then that would highlight the fact that systems have improved.  As most systems do over time.

So the TAB did "give a shit"!

13 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Only met the guy twice years ago, but always thought he was treated badly by the TAB.

How was he treated badly?  He punted with his Lyell Creek winnings, had a long winning streak and revelled in the publicity and took all the rebates and baubles that came with it.  Until it all turned to custard and he started losing.  He then went crying to the NZ Herald when he lost $180k in one weekend which there was some irony given he had been cleaning up much more for a very long time.

Your memory may fail you but Lyell Creek won over a $1 million in the 2000 to 2002 seasons. He won 14 races in a row if my memory serves me correctly.  (Come in @Gammalite )   Bruton had a lot of cash to play with and he enjoyed the limelight as we all do when we get a good horse.  

@Newmarket admit it you are crying crododile tears because you've been cut off from your overseas agency fix.

[curious]

42 minutes ago, hesi said:

Ads, that never had a warning to gamble responsibly, that all TAB ads have

Research says that those messages are tokenistic and totally ineffective in reducing gambling harm which I am sure Entain well knows.

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

@Newmarket you are starting to sound like an addict that has suddenly been cut off.  You've repeatedly told us that in protest you have cut your betting substantially so it appears the new restrictions are working for you.  Great news.
 

Really a win/loss statement is going to make a difference to a "problem gambler"?  Obviously it kept you in check - NOT!  Or were the statements sent to your partner?

Of course we never ever had gambling advertising on TV until ENTAIN came along.  What about the syrupy long LOTTO advertisements that have been bombarding us for decades promoting the chance to win big and change your lifestyle?

@Newmarket it is blindingly that you have a new chip on your shoulder and you are pissed off about not being able to bet overseas.  So just like @Huey rather than participate positively you just want to throw your toys and trash the house.

@Chief Stipe it might be time for you to have a lie down , I think all this fighting, legal challenges & nefarious investigative work you're doing is getting to you. 

Its ok to take a mental health break , I think it might be good for you.

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, curious said:

Research says that those messages are tokenistic and totally ineffective in reducing gambling harm which I am sure Entain well knows.

Yet alcohol and cigarette smoking harm messages do make a difference.

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, Huey said:

@Chief Stipe it might be time for you to have a lie down , I think all this fighting, legal challenges & nefarious investigative work you're doing is getting to you. 

Its ok to take a mental health break , I think it might be good for you.

Was this message meant for @Newmarket ?  I have real concerns about his overseas punting withdrawl symptoms.

Yeah nah!  As for the legal challenges and nefarious investigative work well sadly that seems to be the modus operandi of the likes of yourself, @nomates , @Joe Bloggs (and his five other aliases) and the @Comic Dog .  All part and parcel of allowing the negative nelly Premier Anti-Racing mob freedom of speech.  

Don't worry @Huey I'll defend your right to post negative crap and my right to highlight the BS parts.  In saying that I do find the lies being told and the personal attacks distressing particularly because it affects those close to me.  As you know that is one rule on BOAY I'm very very staunch on.  Elsewhere it appears the same standards maybe preached but not acted upon.  Perhaps it is time to take specific action to address that.

[curious]

11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yet alcohol and cigarette smoking harm messages do make a difference.

Text only messages are not very effective for those either.

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, curious said:

Text only messages are not very effective for those either.

Some reasearch says it is but then I guess you are cherry picking again.

Can you answer this question - given your all consuming negativity over racing why do you actually bother with it at all?

[curious]

3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Some reasearch says it is but then I guess you are cherry picking again.

Can you answer this question - given your all consuming negativity over racing why do you actually bother with it at all?

I've actually been researching and writing about gambling harm for longer than I've been significantly involved in NZ racing.

[Newmarket]

11 hours ago, hesi said:

It is still gambling and can lead on to more serious gambling

Yes, but some worse than others. Majority of problem gamblers are betting with Casinos, non stop quick gambling, Entain next, then Lotto. 
And soon …. Online gambling will be allowed in NZ from other countries… WTF am i missing? 

[curious]

3 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

Yes, but some worse than others. Majority of problem gamblers are betting with Casinos, non stop quick gambling, Entain next, then Lotto. 
And soon …. Online gambling will be allowed in NZ from other countries… WTF am i missing? 

Yes and lotto has not made younger gamblers a target. In fact they are much their lowest customer age group.

[Newmarket]

28 minutes ago, curious said:

I've actually been researching and writing about gambling harm for longer than I've been significantly involved in NZ racing.

Yes you have…. some very valid points too. 

[Murray Fish]

22 hours ago, hesi said:

The media regularly report on the weekly pool and winning prize money.

contra deal....

[Newmarket]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

A few lines of what?

The simplest way to fix those that you know that are "having a bad run for few months" would be to tell them to stop following your punting tips.  What do you quantify as "a bad run" anyway?

FFS @Newmarket that was over 20 years ago!  Of course you conflate a lot of things to boost your story.  Graham Bruton aka Steel Balls had a very very long winning streak fuelled in part by his large share in Lyell Creek - essentially he was gambling with his harness stake money.  Yet you have argued on BOAY that the betting limit restrictions on winners is bad!  Make your mind up!

As for the credit betting episode that was an issue with one Agency Owner who was a friend of Brutons.  The Agency owner allowed him to bet on credit and when Bruton couldn't square up and the Owner couldn't either the Agency Owner was given the boot as it was against TAB policy rules.  Of course credit betting is not be confused with using your credit card to put a bet on.

Bruton started to unravel when he started punting on Super Rugby and he kept doubling up on the Brumbies in 2002 who he backed in the final against the Crusaders to win $500,000.  Unfortunately in the last mintues of the game in one of the best defensive displays in the history of rugby Merthens kicked the match winning goal.  The story goes Bruton got up off his couch and said to his mates he was going for a walk - they picked him up at Raikaia!

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned my Great Uncle from the 1970's who was a bigger punter than Bruton.  He had a special access to the back of the tote to make his bets.  Unfortunately one of his cheques bounced one day and he had to borrow several thousand dollars off his nephew.  Oh those were the days when men were men, women were glad and sheep were scared.

They didn't want turnover the TAB wanted to win back what they had lost.  A concept @Brodie doesn't wish to understand.  Actually @Brodie is a problem gambler - that is he is a problem for the TAB being, unlike yourself, a very disciplined punter who I'm told has taken the TAB for millions.  The TAB didn't run for cover.  The Agency Owner was sacked.   Plus the TAB tightened the balancing rules closing a loop hole making credit bets less likely to go unnoticed until up to 24 hours after betting.  That loop hole worked as long as the punter paid up between the two balance times.  

I'm surprised you didn't further conflate your "story" by referring to the Mick Guerin episode where he rang the agency below his flat and places a $1,000 bet which he didn't pay until 15 minutes later but then that would highlight the fact that systems have improved.  As most systems do over time.

So the TAB did "give a shit"!

How was he treated badly?  He punted with his Lyell Creek winnings, had a long winning streak and revelled in the publicity and took all the rebates and baubles that came with it.  Until it all turned to custard and he started losing.  He then went crying to the NZ Herald when he lost $180k in one weekend which there was some irony given he had been cleaning up much more for a very long time.

Your memory may fail you but Lyell Creek won over a $1 million in the 2000 to 2002 seasons. He won 14 races in a row if my memory serves me correctly.  (Come in @Gammalite )   Bruton had a lot of cash to play with and he enjoyed the limelight as we all do when we get a good horse.  

@Newmarket admit it you are crying crododile tears because you've been cut off from your overseas agency fix.

Do you ever give your own views? FFS, you just copy and paste Steel Balls stories, we all know about them.. But whatever you say… he admitted he was a PROBLEM GAMBLER, he admitted to losing everything, even winnings from Creek. 
As per usual, you miss my main point, being it was harder to see what punters where losing 20 odd years ago compared to today, every deposit / bet / withdrawal, and now they have a monopoly it must be a clear picture of who the problem gamblers are. 
 

As per usual, you make it personal and think i am angry about Entain banning me gambling overseas, your right, i think its a piss take, but i am not angry, i am stiil betting at Sportsbet so dont be so sad. I have cut right back betting on Betcha / TAB on principle, nothing to do with me losing, you know nothing about myself, trust me i am doing well financially, invested in shares many years ago. 
 

But am i angry about luring young people into gambling, YES 100%. As i have stated and most would agree with on here, well apart from Chief… is when we all got introduced to racing 40 or 50 years ago, it was mainly a social event, with a few bets and beers every few weeks. 
 

Fast forward to today, and its full on 24/7 punting, kids getting enticed. 
Recently a good friend opened up about their grandson, nobody gambled in the family, but their 19yo son had been betting with his mates on sports, which progressed to online casino. Family knew nothing about his gambling, he lost his savings of $20k as well as racking up 3 credit cards and a personal loan, all up lost $35k in just over a year…. Only reason shocked family found out, was a bailiff called around to his home… at which time he broke down. His credit rating has been affected and the family had to take out loan on house to pay debts, it has really affected all the family. 
 

So, yes there is a reason i feel strongly about this, will be many others around NZ with the same story.