Thomass Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: I forgot Bonneval - again the Murray Baker factor. Although her last good performances were outside the time I was looking at. Noted though that she showed that class factor that VE and Catalyst have shown before heading over the ditch. SLB - I'm not out to degrade Melody Belle's performance just because she hasn't won big in OZ - what I was pointing out was that her Triple Crown was soft compared to past editions. Sadly the quality of our Open, Grp races and WFA has been on a decline for over a decade now. Winning a Grp 1 in NZ was once a good indicator that you could compete in OZ. Not anymore. Seriously....a G2 win by 5L is relatively BIG! You win a G2 in Oz and you're absolutely competitive in G1... She thrashed PIERATA by 6L in that...and was only 2L behind ALIZEE next trip when caught wide... CONSENSUS won a weakish G1 here yet won at G2 level there...a very good result for her future sale... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 21 minutes ago, Thomass said: Seriously....a G2 win by 5L is relatively BIG! You win a G2 in Oz and you're absolutely competitive in G1... She thrashed PIERATA by 6L in that...and was only 2L behind ALIZEE next trip when caught wide... CONSENSUS won a weakish G1 here yet won at G2 level there...a very good result for her future sale... A Queensland Grp 2 for two yr olds on a Heavy 8 track. Hardly a big form race. She raced next in the JJ Atkins finishing 10th - no Alizee in that race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Next trip over...to Sydney... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 54 minutes ago, Thomass said: Next trip over...to Sydney... I don't see your point. Alizee is in the Cox Plate and they didn't bother nominating Melody Belle for it. The race you refer to was a 3yr old fillies race over 1200m where she ran fifth. The next race The Surround she ran well down the track as did Alizee. Hardly a pointer to Melody Belle matching up to OZ form. As I said in an earlier post I do hope she pulls off a good win this trip as the ranking of the Livamol needs it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 The 'point' is bleedin' obvious I would have thought... Shes competitive there...2L from multiple Group winning Mare ALIZEE, who's not in the Cox but was 3L off in the Everest btw...a very good run.. If I was you I'd be using lengths from the winner rather than placings...or you just look ignorant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 7 hours ago, Thomass said: The 'point' is bleedin' obvious I would have thought... Shes competitive there...2L from multiple Group winning Mare ALIZEE, who's not in the Cox but was 3L off in the Everest btw...a very good run.. If I was you I'd be using lengths from the winner rather than placings...or you just look ignorant She's not competitive yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshu Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 TAS went a lot better then i thought he would. Looked gone at the 600 ,so to run on like that a very very good effort. Winner way too good for the rest. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 1 hour ago, theshu said: TAS went a lot better then i thought he would. Looked gone at the 600 ,so to run on like that a very very good effort. Winner way too good for the rest. His run was bloody outstanding and very well ridden. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Fantastic race T..S, before the race I wouldn't have had it to finish in the top 6 . The Japanese horse on a different planet to that field though. Consensus didn't go a bad race for 6th in it's race only 2l from the winner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 48 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said: Fantastic race T..S, before the race I wouldn't have had it to finish in the top 6 . The Japanese horse on a different planet to that field though. Consensus didn't go a bad race for 6th in it's race only 2l from the winner Yes TAS excellent run ... Consensus quite disappointing, I thought, after having every chance in behind the speed. A Grp 1 quality horse, fit and a past Grp 2 winner on the track/distance at higher level than she met yesterday ...time for a nice grassy paddock and maternal duties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Beau Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 On 22/10/2019 at 7:08 PM, mardigras said: Are the best horses running around Turkey good? Or are they only considered good in Turkey? Or in other countries like New Caledonia. Or India etc. The best that race in NZ are obviously 'good' here. But they generally aren't good from an international perspective. You could argue that the way the Japanese horses are going in Melbourne that Australian Group One racing isn’t up to International standard either! Trying to grade Group racing to one standard is impossible. When they changed It was a mistake. Japan, HK, Turkey, France, Germany, England, Ireland, Canada, USA, NZ and Australia all have Group racing as we all know and all are different aren’t they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 28 minutes ago, Dark Beau said: You could argue that the way the Japanese horses are going in Melbourne that Australian Group One racing isn’t up to International standard either! You could argue the opposite that the TWO Japanese horse's you refer to are true international Grp1 performers and their stamps the class of OZ Grp1's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 41 minutes ago, Weasel said: Yes TAS excellent run ... Consensus quite disappointing, I thought, after having every chance in behind the speed. A Grp 1 quality horse, fit and a past Grp 2 winner on the track/distance at higher level than she met yesterday ...time for a nice grassy paddock and maternal duties? I would agree re consensus mustelid if she were racing here for poor money, but she is close enough to the big money over there. Do you know how far back they pay stakes money at the metro tracks in aus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 37 minutes ago, Dark Beau said: Trying to grade Group racing to one standard is impossible. When they changed It was a mistake. It is far from impossible and should be done to ensure international standards. Otherwise you'll end up handing out Grp races like lollies. The sad fact is New Zealand Grp racing quality is on the decline and most races should be downgraded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said: I would agree re consensus mustelid if she were racing here for poor money, but she is close enough to the big money over there. Do you know how far back they pay stakes money at the metro tracks in aus? She has earned a total of $13k for her placings of 5th, 6th and 6th this campaign in Oz. She does have history of unpredictability and form reversals - she was winless for nearly two years between late Jan 2017 and mid-Jan 2019, from 17 starts, then came right and won 3 out of 4 that summer, culminating in the Grp 2 at Moonee Valley. Her best run since then was 4th in the Hollindale in May ($23k)- her last run in that campaign - and she hasnt run in the first 4 since (in 5 starts this tour of duty). Consensus has been a fine racemare, underrated at times, but it's a big ask to hope that she has one more big run in her when she is in foal (to Iffraaj). I seem to recall Soriano winning when in foal, but time must be running out for Consensus in that respect - hence my question to p4p as to the connections' intentions after the 6th yesterday in what (on paper at least) appeared to be a winnable race. Edited October 26, 2019 by Weasel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Weasel said: She has earned a total of $13k for her placings of 5th, 6th and 6th this campaign in Oz. She does have history of unpredictability and form reversals - she was winless for nearly two years between late Jan 2017 and mid-Jan 2019, from 17 starts, then came right and won 3 out of 4 that summer, culminating in the Grp 2 at Moonee Valley. Her best run since then was 4th in the Hollindale in May ($23k)- her last run in that campaign - and she hasnt run in he first 4 since (in 5 starts this tour of duty). Consensus has been a fine racemare, underrated at times, but it's a big ask to hope that she has one more big run in her when she is in foal (to Iffraaj). I seem to recall Soriano winning when in foal, but time must be running out for Consensus in that respect - hence my question to p4p as to the connections' intentions after the 6th yesterday in what (on paper at least) appeared to be a winnable race. Probably was one of the weaker races she has run in over there, was enough for me to suggest at least one more run in a suitable race and if not up to it pull the pin, but owners will know better than me..... maybe reefton can enlighten us on her plans out of interest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Lys Graciuex was certainly a class above this lot.TAS ran well,but if you look at the replay,he covered not an extra inch of ground and was ahead of her on the turn. Would have thought there are many reasons to leave TAS in Australia with a new trainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Disagree. He is clearly fragile, they know he has soundness issues to a degree, they are looking after him, and good on them. After all, he is a gelding, it is in all their interests to keep him going and sound for as long as possible, he doesn't have a stud career to rush off to. Te Akau is very fortunate to have the skills of team Richards to rely on. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 TAS looked extremely light-it seems he cannot take regular racing and must spell. Probably grossed around 500k for his placing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopia Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 38 minutes ago, Fred said: TAS looked extremely light-it seems he cannot take regular racing and must spell. Probably grossed around 500k for his placing. Fred were there 2 Te akau Sharks' racing yesterday..? I thought he looked great, and if you saw the trackwork from the Valley on Tuesday morning on trackside live ( a great show) you'd say the horse is going to go a bolter, which he did. He looked sensational, and any 'issues' people are referring to haven't stopped him earning close to a million bucks so far, and once 4th, the rest of his races 1/2/3....to aim him at Sydney in the autumn makes sense, he'll get a shot at huge money and he'll get his Group 1 win , just my opinion. Maybe he appreciates tracks with just the sting out of them, as it was yesterday in the Cox Plate, and which he'll probably get in the Autumn? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 47 minutes ago, Kopia said: Fred were there 2 Te akau Sharks' racing yesterday..? I thought he looked great, and if you saw the trackwork from the Valley on Tuesday morning on trackside live ( a great show) you'd say the horse is going to go a bolter, which he did. He looked sensational, and any 'issues' people are referring to haven't stopped him earning close to a million bucks so far, and once 4th, the rest of his races 1/2/3....to aim him at Sydney in the autumn makes sense, he'll get a shot at huge money and he'll get his Group 1 win , just my opinion. Maybe he appreciates tracks with just the sting out of them, as it was yesterday in the Cox Plate, and which he'll probably get in the Autumn? Spot on Kopia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 18 hours ago, barryb said: His run was bloody outstanding and very well ridden. Au contrare Bazz...it may have looked good saving inside ground...but ...Opee had the perfect opportunity one off...to follow Lyrs into the race and with the pace on at the Valley the sling shot affect always activates...instead got over to the rail and had no alternative once caught flat footed The first two slung themselves off the cambered turn taking full advantage of what that gives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Weasel said: She has earned a total of $13k for her placings of 5th, 6th and 6th this campaign in Oz. She does have history of unpredictability and form reversals - she was winless for nearly two years between late Jan 2017 and mid-Jan 2019, from 17 starts, then came right and won 3 out of 4 that summer, culminating in the Grp 2 at Moonee Valley. Her best run since then was 4th in the Hollindale in May ($23k)- her last run in that campaign - and she hasnt run in the first 4 since (in 5 starts this tour of duty). Consensus has been a fine racemare, underrated at times, but it's a big ask to hope that she has one more big run in her when she is in foal (to Iffraaj). I seem to recall Soriano winning when in foal, but time must be running out for Consensus in that respect - hence my question to p4p as to the connections' intentions after the 6th yesterday in what (on paper at least) appeared to be a winnable race. You must have missed moi's post on this Weas... Latest Research suggests the expected 'ping' connections expect from being up the duff is indeed a figment of a vivid imagination...they GENERALLY go backwards... ...the ones that do go as if they're on drugs...do go well though...always the exception to any rule I guess... ...according to Rodley they're going to persist Racing though...one more run there and back here for the Zabeel swansong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 48 minutes ago, Thomass said: You must have missed moi's post on this Weas... Latest Research suggests the expected 'ping' connections expect from being up the duff is indeed a figment of a vivid imagination...they GENERALLY go backwards... ...the ones that do go as if they're on drugs...do go well though...always the exception to any rule I guess... ...according to Rodley they're going to persist Racing though...one more run there and back here for the Zabeel swansong Bit like blinkers. Actually didn't McKee say Consensus had the blinkers on to improve her? Maybe the pregnancy and the blinkers cancelled each other out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Bit like blinkers. Actually didn't McKee say Consensus had the blinkers on to improve her? Maybe the pregnancy and the blinkers cancelled each other out. Actually wasn't that the wee fella? MCKee said " she's very well"... ...they do look fantastic in the blooming period though...Ive oftened used a preggers Mare to look at moi's definition...wet seals are just like mirrors did you know? She does tend to over race but when she won the G2 there they were on...usually at this late stage of a race horse's career it's on/off that works to get them thinking Edited October 27, 2019 by Thomass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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