Resumption of Racing – Stakes Levels through to the end of the 2019-20 Season

[aquaman]

28 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

What would you have done if you were PM?

I would of secured the borders much earlier, locking up any visitors or residents coming into NZ. They should of rented paddocks and filled them with campervans and placed security around them. I would of backed that up with Hotels motels and filled them too. Secondly, I would of had built field hospitals in parks, and rented empty buildings and fitted them out with respirators and beds to accommodate any surge. Thirdly, I would of tested tested tested, traced traced traced, and all positives or possibles locked down. Forthly, I would of ring fenced rest homes, and encouraged those at risk, ie health issues and advanced years to stay at home. I would of encouraged social distancing and kept the economy open.

[Chief Stipe]

30 minutes ago, mardigras said:

I'll let you carry on moaning (since there is nothing you can do about it), whilst I enjoy a nice glass of wine and a bit of a break from my normal travels.

I guess that about sums it up for you Mardigras.  Unlike some of us you don't give a shit.

I guess that's how the Racing Industry got into the mess it is in.  None of us spoke loud enough.

As for moaning that criticism is only valid if it isn't associated with the suggestion of alternative action.  For example you said you don't give a shit how much or what type of Covid-19 testing is undertaken.

Well I consider the lack of a wider testing programme a significant gap in this Govenrments Covid-19 management programme.  I've actually talked to health professionals and they agree.

It is simply astounding that Medsafe NZ has banned the importation of POC Antibody tests until 22 April 2021!!!

Enjoy your red wine but make sure you follow Nanny Aderns rules on who you can drink it with.

 

[mardigras]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

You are cherry picking here Mardigras.  Sure Sweden's economy has taken a hit but no where near as bad as Finland or Norway.  What's more they haven't borrowed huge amounts of money to hand out to their citizens.  They still have that ace largely up their sleeve.

Forecast GDP negative impact to Norway is currently 1/3 of that forecast for Sweden. 

As for Sweden and money. Maybe you better get a handle on what the government is doing there. Don't let the facts get in the way.

https://www.government.se/press-releases/2020/03/crisis-package-for-swedish-businesses-and-jobs/

Do you know how much $300B SEK is in NZD being made available. I'll help you - close enough to NZD$50B.

And then there is the credit facility - $500B SEK or about another NZD$85B available to help support business.

Keep it up , I'll start believing you soon.

[Chief Stipe]

38 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

So the virus is in the community waiting to be shared again?

Why wouldn't it be?  Even Adern and Bloomfield say "elimination isn't Zero."

The global experience is that many who get it have no symptoms or only mild symptoms.  

Why is it that we have been through over two 14 day cycles and we are still getting cases albeit low numbers?

[the galah]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

It is NOT fact.  Check this out:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/trumps-flawed-china-travel-conspiracy/

You can go further and check the data this article uses.  It is readily available online and or through most flight tracking apps.

Aside from the facts about flights out of Wuhan you also need to consider that even if they did continue eevidence shows that the virus was already circulating in Europe.

Also Italy didn't close it's borders until 31 January a full week after China imposed restrictions on Wuhan on 23 January.

I don't oppose the criticism of a country what I do oppose is criticism that is not based on data, facts and logic. If it isn't based on those things then it is racism or xenophobia.

Trump poking the Panda into a corner to suit his own ends isn't going to help the world.

Thanks for posting that. It does put a different light on the extent of travel from the epicentre.. I had read multiple press reports quoting different sources about travel from wuhan after the 24th of january. The stories seemed to say defy logic,and well there you go ,they  clearly were over stated.

There is no doubt travel from the epicentre by the many foreign citizens  that went home did take place after the 24th,but China understandably would not have stopped them going home. 

One interesting article i read was 5 million people from wuhan had left the city for travel within china and overseas in the preceding month due to the holidays they have with the chinese new year and  many because of the rumours that a deadly virus was sweeping their city.

Edited May 8, 2020 by the galah

[Happy Sunrise]

After seeing this in the news my wife's headache went away.

 

 

 

[Happy Sunrise]

7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why wouldn't it be?  Even Adern and Bloomfield say "elimination isn't Zero."

So lockdown was a waste of time in your opinion?

[mardigras]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

You are cherry picking here Mardigras.  Sure Sweden's economy has taken a hit but no where near as bad as Finland or Norway.  What's more they haven't borrowed huge amounts of money to hand out to their citizens.  They still have that ace largely up their sleeve.

Don't you find it incredible that a country not in lockdown, could find itself in need of so much financial support from government.

It must be just bad timing, poor buggers.

In the meantime, lets throw small business another NZD$10B on top of the earlier NZD$50B just to be sure.

https://www.government.se/press-releases/2020/03/crisis-package-for-small-enterprises-in-sweden/

Edited May 8, 2020 by mardigras

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, curious said:

Because of the lockdown, or because of the impact of the virus on the economy (lockdown or no lockdown)? I think you've got your cause and effect thinking muddled. There's no evidence of that.

Because of the lockdown.

The Covid19 strain we have in Australasia is clearly not as devastating as many countries overseas and where they have an aged population.

We have had 160,000 or more tests and not one single death of anyone under 60 and those over had underlying issues.

We can all agree to disagree and this is very divisive.

The reality is that there is going to be a helluva lot more deaths due to the actions of being locked up and effing the economy.

Watched PaulMurray last night on Sky and the Expert on mental health over there is expecting an extra 1500 deaths per year for the next 5 years due to suicide!!

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, mardigras said:

Don't you find it incredible that a country not in lockdown, could find itself in need of so much financial support from government.

It must be just bad timing, poor buggers.

In the meantime, lets throw small business another NZD$10B on top of the earlier NZD$50B just to be sure.

https://www.government.se/press-releases/2020/03/crisis-package-for-small-enterprises-in-sweden/

Typical Mardigras response.  Why don't you outline for us the differences between the Swedish and NZ Government responses?

The tools Sweden have used are quite different.  

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Happy Sunrise said:

So lockdown was a waste of time in your opinion?

Yep particularly the way it has been managed.  Not only a waste of time but after being implemented lots of lost opportunities.

For example from left field.  Why did new road construction need to stop?  Barely any vehicles on the road.

Why couldn't Auckland Airport have fixed their stuffed runway?

It is apparent that the bottle neck in our hospitals is ICU beds even without Covid19.  Have we used the lockdown to gear up more ICU capacity?

[mardigras]

Just now, Chief Stipe said:

Typical Mardigras response.  Why don't you outline for us the differences between the Swedish and NZ Government responses?

The tools Sweden have used are quite different.  

It is typical because it's factual.

Give up. You came on here and said the Swedish government weren't offering financial support. They very much are. 

You are deluded. 

You wanted stuff that wasn't subjective. I gave it to you. And you want more. I could go on with these sorts of things for ever - the only difference my stuff comes from the source - the Swedish government. Your stuff is a figment of someone's imagination.

But just explain one thing. Why is Sweden even putting up financial support. They aren't in lockdown. 

[Brodie]

Mardigras, you won’t be going to all the Mardigras around the world this year then?

Just keep safe, take precautions!

[mardigras]

3 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Mardigras, you won’t be going to all the Mardigras around the world this year then?

Just keep safe, take precautions!

I travel 3+ months overseas nearly every year - not this year however. But not because of lockdown.

If lockdown is causing you such grief - maybe spend that spare time reskilling or diversifying - look for an upside. Just an idea. Or get a good book and have a read.

You'll know, you know everything. Why has the Swedish government put up NZD$60B for business/workers due to Covid-19? When they aren't in lockdown there? Odd thing to do.

[Chief Stipe]

30 minutes ago, mardigras said:

Give up. You came on here and said the Swedish government weren't offering financial support. They very much are. 

I didn't say that.  Now who is lying and or deluded.

I said Sweden wasn't borrowing large amounts of money to handout to their citizens.

Answer that one who are you into your 2nd bottle of red?

[Chief Stipe]

20 minutes ago, mardigras said:

Why has the Swedish government put up NZD$60B for business/workers due to Covid-19?

Where did you get that figure from?

Sweden already pre-Covid-19 had a much higher unemployment rate than NZ.

[mardigras]

 

2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I didn't say that.  Now who is lying and or deluded.

I said Sweden wasn't borrowing large amounts of money to handout to their citizens.

Answer that one who are you into your 2nd bottle of red?

Well given that Sweden has a debt ratio of 38% of GDP (where we have less than that), where do you think Sweden is getting its money from. Just printing some more off at the mint?

[mardigras]

2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Where did you get that figure from?

Sweden already pre-Covid-19 had a much higher unemployment rate than NZ.

This money isn't for those already unemployed. 

That money is in the two links I put up - from the Swedish government. Would you like them both again. Here they are. And not to mention the Riksbank coming up with a further NZD$85B to give to banks so that they can support business requiring further money.

NZD$50B in the first one, and NZD$10B in the second one.

https://www.government.se/press-releases/2020/03/crisis-package-for-swedish-businesses-and-jobs/

https://www.government.se/press-releases/2020/03/crisis-package-for-small-enterprises-in-sweden/

[Rangatira]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Speculation based on the "fear factor."

 

[Rangatira]

4 hours ago, Yankiwi said:

Resumption of Racing – Stakes Levels through to the end of the 2019-20 Season....

yankiwi on the money

[Chief Stipe]

26 minutes ago, mardigras said:

This money isn't for those already unemployed. 

That money is in the two links I put up - from the Swedish government. Would you like them both again. Here they are. And not to mention the Riksbank coming up with a further NZD$85B to give to banks so that they can support business requiring further money.

NZD$50B in the first one, and NZD$10B in the second one.

https://www.government.se/press-releases/2020/03/crisis-package-for-swedish-businesses-and-jobs/

https://www.government.se/press-releases/2020/03/crisis-package-for-small-enterprises-in-sweden/

As I said the Swedish Government hasn't borrowed money for cash handouts to business.

They have used various tools at their disposal to make it easier for businesses to stay in business.  The assistance is very targeted and much of it has not been spent or drawn down yet.

For example the Swedish Government is acting as a Guarantor for LOANS provided by banks to assist private enterprises.  Hardly untargeted non refundable cash handouts.

They've put in place a scheme to pay for employers sick leave obligations for a limited time.  Again targeted specific payments.

Nor double winter warmer payments because presumably Covid-19 makes the winter twice as cold.

[mardigras]

23 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

As I said the Swedish Government hasn't borrowed money for cash handouts to business.

They have used various tools at their disposal to make it easier for businesses to stay in business.  The assistance is very targeted and much of it has not been spent or drawn down yet.

For example the Swedish Government is acting as a Guarantor for LOANS provided by banks to assist private enterprises.  Hardly untargeted non refundable cash handouts.

They've put in place a scheme to pay for employers sick leave obligations for a limited time.  Again targeted specific payments.

Nor double winter warmer payments because presumably Covid-19 makes the winter twice as cold.

You'd argue against anything that doesn't fit your agenda. You have no idea where they are getting the money to fund normal activities whilst this support is going on.

Your views on what is targeted or otherwise, are just subjective and I disagree with them. Aside from that, I prefer dealing in facts - such as the links I put up. 

But more importantly - why are these support mechanisms needed again? They aren't in lockdown so why are they having such dire economic issues. (Don't bother answering or asking anything further - you are fixated with your anti-labour views.)

As I said earlier, no point trying to debate this with you. Your responses show it is a waste of time. You'd argue Sweden are doing x because of y and therefore it is different. 

When the facts are - their unemployment rate has increased significantly more than NZs since March 1. Their government is offering financial support to a greater value of money than the NZ government is - directly in relation to Covid-19. They are facts. Yet they aren't in lockdown. And your argument is that lockdown is causing all these issues. Yeah right.

[curious]

3 hours ago, Brodie said:

Because of the lockdown.

But you have still provided not an iota of evidence of that. Where is it?

[Yankiwi]

48 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

yankiwi on the money

Brodie is my brother, therefore I'm on the money too. 

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, mardigras said:

I travel 3+ months overseas nearly every year - not this year however. But not because of lockdown.

If lockdown is causing you such grief - maybe spend that spare time reskilling or diversifying - look for an upside. Just an idea. Or get a good book and have a read.

You'll know, you know everything. Why has the Swedish government put up NZD$60B for business/workers due to Covid-19? When they aren't in lockdown there? Odd thing to do.

Lockdown is causing most people some grief if they have got something to lose!

The fallout from the lockdown is going to be horrific for many and I know it has not been handled very well by the government over the last couple of weeks.

Personally I don’t need to reskill or retrain for anything, we are fortunate  that we have not suffered as a result of the lockdown financially and only have to answer to my wife.

Dont give a rats about what is happening in Sweden as it doesn’t concern NZ, and do get a bit sick of people quoting what is happening overseas as it is totally irrelevant to what is happening in NZ which is an Island and hasn’t had a single death due to Covid19.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Brodie