Addington Starter

[Happy Sunrise]

1 hour ago, Rusty said:

I really hope the new CEO can maybe address the whole issue of starting races etc

There is a current CEO who should sort it out now. 

[Rusty]

9 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

There is a current CEO who should sort it out now. 

100% 

[Karrots]

Hey Brodie, oh my, I certainly did not join this site after observing for 12 months + to engage in any sort of hostility with others. Quite the contrary. 

I value your opinion and thoughts. Yes I totally understood where you were coming from 100% regarding it. Then I felt it went on just too long. You deserve a right to reply considering it was me that brought the subject up here. However I will not debate the subject further. I have said my peace on this subject. 

I see the horse has had a change of trainer. No doubt more, online talk. I will be rooting for Aveross Spitfire and the horses connections to get that most challenging top 3 place.

[JJ Flash]

34 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

What is there a difference in treatment between that galloping starter who got stood down for an error at the start at Ellerslie (?) and Lamb? 

I like most dont know. 

Ive already posted this elsewhere but Fridays Dominion could be  a repeat of yesterdays disaster. He will surely be under some major pressure not to screw that race up but 15 trotters, 2 lines . 

 

Greg

[JJ Flash]

28 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

There is a current CEO who should sort it out now. 

But the question is how long is his contract with NZMTC and are there any out clauses apart from " Here is a Cheque"

 

[Happy Sunrise]

27 minutes ago, JJ Flash said:

But the question is how long is his contract with NZMTC and are there any out clauses apart from " Here is a Cheque"

 

I think I heard the new CEO starts mid January. Time enough for the current top dog to get something underway.

If he already has his money he may not have the motivation though.

[Happy Sunrise]

36 minutes ago, Karrots said:

I see the horse has had a change of trainer.

The cult just doubled in size. The suspended Den won't be able to pilot the Spitfire though.

He could be just what the horse needs.  Will be great following him.

[Mikie]

50 minutes ago, JJ Flash said:

But the question is how long is his contract with NZMTC and are there any out clauses apart from " Here is a Cheque"

 

NZMTC?

You mean HRNZ? His contract goes until 31.03.20 and the new CEO starts mid-January

The current CEO will revert to an Independent Director

No doubt his golden handshake will be paid out in a lump sum so that he isn't double-dipping

Mikie

[hunterthepunter]

come in THE GALAH love to here your comments on MR LAMB as your one of his fan club

[the galah]

3 hours ago, hunterthepunter said:

come in THE GALAH love to here your comments on MR LAMB as your one of his fan club

I agree it was an unfair start.

Its obvious the horses on the outside had  significant forward momentum when the tapes were released. Of note was the same thing happened in the first aborted start. 

The position of the starter i think is of some significance. 

I personally don't know where the correct positioning should be,but what i do know is its easier to see on trackside when the horses are in a proper line at the 2000m/3200m start than it is at the 2600m start. That is because the trackside cameras are side on at the 2000m and front on at the 2600m. Conversely the opposite applies for trackside viewers to tell if horses are too close together,because its easier to tell head on at the 2600m start if this is happening. The only real solution i have would to be to have  a 2nd starters assistant/ observer positioned so as to notify the starter of any potential issues,but i think that really would be overthinking a solution when it was just a poor starters decision.

I do think the calls for his removal because this was a nz cup are putting too much emphasis on just the one race. Then again you have had criticism of him for some time from some quarters. Its like many are just waiting for a start like they got yesterday to highlight their point of view,and for others to push their agenda. 

I think it is unlikely you would get better starts if he was not the starter. Personally i think there other variables which can sometimes lead to unfair starts,no matter who the starter is.

My gripe around the addington starts is the 1980 mobiles. I know this was brought up by someone else a wee while ago,but why is it the horses on the outside 2 positions have to work overtime in the last 100m to keep up with the mobile. They seem to lose a length about 100m before the start. I had used to think it was driver error ,but it happens so much i'm wondering if the banking of the track at that point is the reason for the obvious disadvantage.

[Gammalite]

37 minutes ago, the galah said:

I think it is unlikely you would get better starts if he was not the starter. Personally i think there other variables which can sometimes lead to unfair starts,no matter who the starter is.

Granted the "run-up start" does seem to favour those running up the fastest, but the whole idea is to get the field away safely in every stand start race. 

As Galah says there are a LOT of Variables. The main one is the horses themselves. 

As a former race driver with a lot of stand experience, (rocklea that race every Sat in Bris was so small a mobile barrier couldn't be used) I Can Say this method is much more better than making them stand up to the tape for whatever length of time and then possibly get a fright and swing sideways when the tape is released. Horses are Very Anxious at this point as you might imagine, like they are when going into the barriers at the gallops. It only takes one to play up a bit to upset some others as well. Sometimes the driver can't avoid this and the starter has No Chance of predicting that. 

You guys must of seen that a few times. ? horses swing sideways taking out another runner, or blocking the second row. At some tracks the tape would thump the outside fence (NZ and/or Aus) and make a hell of noise and frighten the crap out of the outer drawn horses (even just the sight of it sometimes)  and cause chaos. They could swing/ duck and dive in all directions. The 'run up start' looked great in avoiding all that stuff, I must say compared to what used to happen. 

[JJ Flash]

11 hours ago, Mikie said:

NZMTC?

You mean HRNZ? His contract goes until 31.03.20 and the new CEO starts mid-January

The current CEO will revert to an Independent Director

No doubt his golden handshake will be paid out in a lump sum so that he isn't double-dipping

Mikie

I was referring to Lambs contract with NZMTC not HRNZ Ceo

[hunterthepunter]

1 hour ago, JJ Flash said:

I was referring to Lambs contract

he should not have a contract . 

[Rangatira]

21 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said:

he should not have a contract . 

the lovely cinders requires us to be kind to each other

the lambster included

[Noodlum]

8 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Granted the "run-up start" does seem to favour those running up the fastest, but the whole idea is to get the field away safely in every stand start race. 

A "running" standing start is an oxymoron!

In my opinion it's due to a drop in standards (that seems to be happening all over this PC world) and the enforcement of them.  

You don't manipulate the rules to accommodate the poorly trained horses.

I remember we had a good horse that was a bit tardy and nervous when starting.  We were heading to the big time with him so we decided to spend a few hours every week for a bit practicing his starts.  Had the radio on Radio Trackside (its then equivalent) blaring at full noise, the kids lined up in deckchairs with their noisy toys playing their best tunes (NOT!) and encouraged to yell.  The dog even joined in barking.  One of the owners standing with the barrier bungee.  

The horse naturally wanted to run so if he bottled it the trainer/driver would quickly pull him up and we'd start again.  Turned him into a horse that would stand still entirely focussed on the tape and a brilliant starter regardless of any distraction thrown at him.  You could say he became too good at times as we didn't always want to lead so soon!  Actually we suspect he started to anticipate the start by watching the Starter.

In those times if you kept breaking at the start you'd get put on the Unruly list (when it actually meant something) and if you kept breaking and blowing your chances the competition for starts in ALL grades was such that you had to go get trial form to start again.

Now we have horses turning up week in week out failing to pace or trot so regularly that they may as well start them at Riccarton!

Edited November 11, 2020 by Noodlum

[Chief Stipe]

I've read a few comments about Lamb working for the RIU but just passed over them thinking it was just smoke.  Until I read Lichter's latest article.  Sure it is "Source say..." but surely that is a huge conflict?  No wonder he appears to have immunity with the Stipes!

Sources say there is also friction between Lamb and many of the drivers in the wake of the Operation Inca inquiry.

Lamb not only acts as the sole starter in the Canterbury area but he is employed by the Racing Integrity Unit as an investigator and was involved in the long running and so far essentially fruitless cases against a number of drivers, a conflict that many argue should not be allowed to continue.

[Rangatira]

2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I've read a few comments about Lamb working for the RIU but just passed over them thinking it was just smoke.  Until I read Lichter's latest article.  Sure it is "Source say..." but surely that is a huge conflict?  No wonder he appears to have immunity with the Stipes!

Sources say there is also friction between Lamb and many of the drivers in the wake of the Operation Inca inquiry.

Lamb not only acts as the sole starter in the Canterbury area but he is employed by the Racing Integrity Unit as an investigator and was involved in the long running and so far essentially fruitless cases against a number of drivers, a conflict that many argue should not be allowed to continue.

100 percent

[Chief Stipe]

Lichter's article is also a bit misleading - understandable considering who pays him.  But the disadvantage that Copy That experienced was made worse by that horse's seemingly reluctance to get going.  The following picture only serves to slant the argument.  Oh I wish for a return to objective journalism rather than opinion-ism.

[Dougie]

So if the Lamb Chop is a private contractor so to speak and hired on a meeting basis by clubs would there be a contract between them all and him??

Just seems weird that all these clubs employ him:

Rangiora

Addington

Banks P

Methven

Geraldine

Ashvegas

Add to this list when Timaru or Greymouth have a meeting at Addington and does he start in Nelson also?

I for one can't believe that not 1 of these Stand Alone Clubs don't employ Ricky D as word is he's the best starter in the country...... No way they all think Lamb is the best their must be input /pressure from HRNZ to employ Lamb even if they won't admit to it.

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Noodlum said:

Now we have horses turning up week in week out failing to pace or trot so regularly that they may as well start them at Riccarton!

Hence the trouble you are having with all the starts you guys are complaining about.........

The horse is the greatest variable, once they start dancing around and cannon into your runner , even the best educated horse( immune to the radio and dogs barking , before the days of Deafeners??) can often be upset by another trying to sit in the sulky with you. I remember having to push others off me quite frequently while close togeather waiting for the tape to go.

 I think that photo just above from the Chief Stipe is just beautiful and looks like every horse had a chance to get away IMO, without being interferred with by others . (a real problem previously)

[Noodlum]

7 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

The horse is the greatest variable, once they start dancing around and cannon into your runner , even the best educated horse( immune to the radio and dogs barking , before the days of Deafeners??) can often be upset by another trying to sit in the sulky with you. I remember having to push others off me quite frequently while close togeather waiting for the tape to go.

 

Those horse's in the past that did that in the extreme were quickly moved to the outside of the second row.  If you didn't behave you were penalised now days you get looked after!

As for deafeners - I'm not a fan of all this extra bullshit that's being used to essentially overcome poor breaking in and poor training.  FFS pulling the ear plugs makes a horse go faster?  

Edited November 11, 2020 by Noodlum

[Gammalite]

5 minutes ago, Noodlum said:

As for deafeners - I'm not a fan of all this extra bullshit that's being used to essentially overcome poor breaking in and poor training.  FFS pulling the ear plugs makes a horse go faster?  

Absolutely!! . Noise is your friend out there. These days you can't use the whip much so its all about Noise. You are scaring the horse to victory. Drivers used to whack the dust-sheet, the wheel disc, the running rail even, to make as much noise as possible to make them 'run-on'

Pulling the ear-plugs initiates that moment , and the horse responds more often than not (for a few metres anyway lol )

BTW , jockeys are louder than ever, screaming at their mounts up the straight. Scare to them to run faster. Not allowed to use the whip like before to make the noise.

You can hear Damien Oliver from the grandstand . He is very loud......lol. 

[Mikie]

4 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

I was referring to Lambs contract with NZMTC not HRNZ Ceo

Aha got it

My bad

Mikie

[Noodlum]

6 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Absolutely!! . Noise is your friend out there. These days you can't use the whip much so its all about Noise. You are scaring the horse to victory. Drivers used to whack the dust-sheet, the wheel disc, the running rail even, to make as much noise as possible to make them 'run-on'

Pulling the ear-plugs initiates that moment , and the horse responds more often than not (for a few metres anyway lol )

BTW , jockeys are louder than ever, screaming at their mounts up the straight. Scare to them to run faster. Not allowed to use the whip like before to make the noise.

You can hear Damien Oliver from the grandstand . He is very loud......lol. 

But it doesn't actually make them race faster than they can.  The good one's don't need any encouragement.

[Mikie]

Just now, Noodlum said:

But it doesn't actually make them race faster than they can.  The good one's don't need any encouragement.

The real good ones mightn't

But deafeners when pulled elicit a response at an appropriate time without a doubt

Mikie