Mikie Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: Getting kind of late in the day for it to be released isn't it? Especially with Show Day tomorrow. Is it more like he has just been stood down for tomorrow to ease some of the pressure rather than a termination? Not sure about this. Perhaps the wording you suggest is na possibility Happy, maybe to soften the impact However if you are right it will be only for that reason I'm told that the starter for Cup Day will never start another race at Addington Seems fairly clear but hey, we will know for sure once JJ Flash posts Mikie Edited November 12, 2020 by Mikie 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshu Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 About time they got rid of this starter. Hard to even imagine the amount of money he has cost the punters over the years. It is a professional sport and lots of money is involved,so personally good riddance to the amateur hour. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrots Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) https://www.lincolnfarms.co.nz/stories/lamb-sacked-after-cup-start-shemozzle-ricky-donnelly-takes-over-on-friday/ I saw the other site R A C E - C A F E had posted Mikies word for word comments re Lamb fired and press release to follow. Which is fine, have to get the up-to-date info from wherever the latest source is. So here it is - Barry Lichter from a public investigation journalist whom I enjoy very much reading his articles. Edited November 12, 2020 by Karrots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 25 minutes ago, Karrots said: Lamb fired Best word for the situation: untenable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Watch Copy That as he went to line up both times and it was obvious he was not focused on going away fast. I backed him myself,but you could tell from the horses body language he was more interested in what was happening elsewhere than he was on going away. Ray greens opinion that lamb should no longer work for the riu is ridiculous. Green could not have cared less when punters did their money cold when his horse was pulled out of a race earlier in the season when a stinking hot favourite when it was striking the footrests. To me this is a very bad case of sour grapes from green. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 4 hours ago, Rusty said: If true, will that mean Copy That gets a start in the FFA?! Just joking, but kind of not. Did he get one in the cup? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, the galah said: To me this is a very bad case of sour grapes from green. Maybe, but what do you expect? He is sour like many punters. I am tired of people being judged by their supposed negative reaction when the root cause of the problem is Lamb. Lamb made a mess of it, it wasn't fair to a majority of horses and benefited a few like Xmas had come early. Add in his record of poor starts and lack of accountability by both him and the RIU I have no sympathy. Next, I would like the new 'interpretation' of events at the start eg late scratchings to be spelt out for everyone by the RIU. Drain the swamp....eh Brodie 😀 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, mikeynz said: Did he get one in the cup? I haven't seen the start of the race but have seen a lot of standing starts that are not that flash,so will someone do any better than this Lamb guy remains to be seen,I'm not into personal criticism of someone as such but maybe someone newer with a fresher appetite for the job is worth a go,how manyyears has lamb been the starter? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, mikeynz said: I haven't seen the start of the race but have seen a lot of standing starts that are not that flash,so will someone do any better than this Lamb guy remains to be seen,I'm not into personal criticism of someone as such but maybe someone newer with a fresher appetite for the job is worth a go,how manyyears has lamb been the starter? Just like commentators and the guy doing the after race interviews sometimes it's not good,they are only human but it would a good deed though if the Tab refunded all the punters after every race that a horse had a bad start or got a bad run lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, mikeynz said: so will someone do any better than this Lamb guy remains to be seen From what I have seen Ricky Donnelly just gets on with it. No theatrics and quite amenable, just wants to get the race started. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrots Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, the galah said: Watch Copy That as he went to line up both times and it was obvious he was not focused on going away fast. I backed him myself,but you could tell from the horses body language he was more interested in what was happening elsewhere than he was on going away. Ray greens opinion that lamb should no longer work for the riu is ridiculous. Green could not have cared less when punters did their money cold when his horse was pulled out of a race earlier in the season when a stinking hot favourite when it was striking the footrests. To me this is a very bad case of sour grapes from green. Hey Galah, I do not believe this is sour grapes from Green. The people have spoken. Power to the people. Stronger in numbers. There was a petition circulating, there was a lot of online chatter going on, there was dismay from horseman and drivers. And many more. Ill message you privately about a past post I want to give you facts on 🙂 Im was pleased you brought to attention.Back to subject, Rusty broke this news on here first. And Mikie followed it up. Please we collectively were on the money and not spreading mis-information. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Why has no one asked this question. If Lamb had not pulled the tapes when the horses on the outside had so much momentum then what?......Another aborted start? I'm not making excuses for what clearly was a poor start. However why weren't the drivers of the outside horses reprimanded for anticipating the start.Well the answer to that i assume is because the stipes had no issue with them. I'm not saying i'm a fan of lamb's,just saying that Lambs termination from addington will be seen as payback by some who had alterior motives. And no i'm not talking about punters. And yes i am talking about some licence holders. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Just now, the galah said: If Lamb had not pulled the tapes when the horses on the outside had so much momentum then what?......Another aborted start? Yip, another one. 1 minute ago, the galah said: However why weren't the drivers of the outside horses reprimanded for anticipating the start. They were more than anticipating and in the inquiry into Lamb's previous large clanger in August they were going to hold drivers more accountable but they don't. The outside horses clearly put pressure on the starter and got away with it. They are not reprimanded because the stipes do not follow their own rulings or directions, eg late scratchings, standing down poorly behaved horses, horses going inside the marker pegs, drivers hitting wheels. Lamb is a fall guy in a partial kind of way because he is not supported by the stipes in their management of the starts and he is left to deal with the confusion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 31 minutes ago, the galah said: Watch Copy That as he went to line up both times and it was obvious he was not focused on going away fast. I backed him myself,but you could tell from the horses body language he was more interested in what was happening elsewhere than he was on going away. Ray greens opinion that lamb should no longer work for the riu is ridiculous. Green could not have cared less when punters did their money cold when his horse was pulled out of a race earlier in the season when a stinking hot favourite when it was striking the footrests. To me this is a very bad case of sour grapes from green. Just watched it,looked like Copy That wasn't fully on the job but still wasn't a even start. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Racing: Long-time harness starter Peter Lamb sacked following chaotic New Zealand Cup 12 Nov, 2020 07:30 PM2 minutes to read Self Assured won the New Zealand Cup after the controversial start. Photo / Race Images NZ Herald By: Michael Guerin The man in charge of Tuesday's controversial New Zealand Cup start has been replaced. Long-time Canterbury harness racing starter Peter Lamb was informed by host club Addington he will no longer be their starter, with the role going to former assistant starter Ricky Donnelly. The start of Tuesday's $540,000 Group 1 great race was widely criticised after the horses drawn wide were walking up to the start when the tapes were released while the horses drawn inside were standing still. Punters were outraged by the unfairness, especially as hot favourite Copy That was the worst affected as he was so sluggish away from the ace draw he was never a chance after. Lamb, a former trainer, has had a sometimes troubled relationship with several key horse people, undoubtedly not helped by the fact he also works for the Racing Integrity Unit as an investigator and has worked on the long-running Operation Inca. It appears Tuesday's starting debacle was the straw that broke the camel's back as the Australasian-wide outcry in the harness industry made Lamb's position untenable. Whether he keeps his role as starter for the other clubs in Canterbury, who have the right to employ whoever they want from Harness Racing New Zealand's officially registered pool of starters, remains to be seen. Lamb was informed he will no longer be Addington's starter before today's Ashburton meeting. But no official statement was made by Addington officials until tonight so as not to unfairly impact his ability to perform his duties at the Ashburton meeting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Twice in one week agreeing with Galah. I must be ill. Copy That wouldn't have won that race. He was off for some reason. Blair Orange didn't drive him with confidence either. Probably more than one reason why avoiding the FFA. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrots Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, the galah said: Why has no one asked this question. If Lamb had not pulled the tapes when the horses on the outside had so much momentum then what?......Another aborted start? I'm not making excuses for what clearly was a poor start. However why weren't the drivers of the outside horses reprimanded for anticipating the start.Well the answer to that i assume is because the stipes had no issue with them. I'm not saying i'm a fan of lamb's,just saying that Lambs termination from addington will be seen as payback by some who had alterior motives. And no i'm not talking about punters. And yes i am talking about some licence holders. Hey Im not going to engage further more than this. Its quite the hot topic, I did a bit of research myself today, found an article on harness link from 2014. Im not going to post it here, but it was interesting to say the least. The title was massive "Conflict of Interest". Here were parts of it Peter Lamb continues to be both a starter and a steward on raceday and in our view he cannot be both. Peter works very closely with his fellow stewards for weeks on end and then when a complaint is made against his performance as a starter, the people to decide weather to charge him are the same people who he works very closely with at every race meeting. We have had numerous approaches from horsemen/trainers who are unhappy about the current situation but are reluctant to speak out for fear rightly or wrongly of antagonizing those who have control over how they earn their income. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Copy That wouldn't have won that race. He was off for some reason. The cameras were on him prior to the start and he was standing still, sideways on the track looking back towards the stands. I asked myself what is he doing, I thought he reminded me of myself when I want to be somewhere else. He was definitely flat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globederby12 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, Karrots said: Hey Im not going to engage further more than this. Its quite the hot topic, I did a bit of research myself today, found an article on harness link from 2014. Im not going to post it here, but it was interesting to say the least. The title was massive "Conflict of Interest". Here were parts of it Peter Lamb continues to be both a starter and a steward on raceday and in our view he cannot be both. Peter works very closely with his fellow stewards for weeks on end and then when a complaint is made against his performance as a starter, the people to decide weather to charge him are the same people who he works very closely with at every race meeting. We have had numerous approaches from horsemen/trainers who are unhappy about the current situation but are reluctant to speak out for fear rightly or wrongly of antagonizing those who have control over how they earn their income. Yep ,remember that article. Complete conflict of interests that was tolerated and condoned . Shameful . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Just now, globederby12 said: Complete conflict of interests that was tolerated and condoned Everything is tolerated and that is the problem. Lamb losing his job at Addington has pulled back the scab on the control of racing in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Karrots said: Hey Im not going to engage further more than this. Its quite the hot topic, I did a bit of research myself today, found an article on harness link from 2014. Im not going to post it here, but it was interesting to say the least. The title was massive "Conflict of Interest". Here were parts of it Peter Lamb continues to be both a starter and a steward on raceday and in our view he cannot be both. Peter works very closely with his fellow stewards for weeks on end and then when a complaint is made against his performance as a starter, the people to decide weather to charge him are the same people who he works very closely with at every race meeting. We have had numerous approaches from horsemen/trainers who are unhappy about the current situation but are reluctant to speak out for fear rightly or wrongly of antagonizing those who have control over how they earn their income. I have always thought it has never been made clear by officialdom as to what Lambs duties as a steward are. I have always assumed it was to do the likes of checking brands,numbers when they come into the birdcage pre race and around at the start. I had assumed his duties as a stipendary steward were unrelated to,and completely separate from that of the stipes who officiate over the running of a race. The failure of HRNZ or the RIU to clarify his duties and confirm there is complete separation i have thought is for one of two reasons. Either it is beacuse they are happy to see him undermined,(which would not surprise me),or that my assumption of his duties are not correct. I'm guessing it is the former,although may be wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 58 minutes ago, mikeynz said: I haven't seen the start of the race but have seen a lot of standing starts that are not that flash,so will someone do any better than this Lamb guy remains to be seen,I'm not into personal criticism of someone as such but maybe someone newer with a fresher appetite for the job is worth a go,how manyyears has lamb been the starter? Far too long! Personally believe that if someone is not competent in a job then they need replacing! As I have said several times that it is nothing personal but Mr Lamb made far too many cockups and no one in officialdom had the balls to sack him! Ricky Donnelly had been trained up but Mr Lamb wouldnt step aside. If harness racing could not provide a competent starter then there should only be mobile starts! No pressure whatsoever on Ricky Donnelly in the future but It must be a major improvement. Well done to whoever made the decision however they were under major pressure to appease the many that were not happy. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 I sincerely hope Mr Lamb is supported as well as he possibly can be in what may be a difficult time for him. We are all human afterall. I think now is a good time to perhaps put the past behind us, learn from it, and look forward to the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 hours ago, the galah said: Watch Copy That as he went to line up both times and it was obvious he was not focused on going away fast. I backed him myself,but you could tell from the horses body language he was more interested in what was happening elsewhere than he was on going away. Ray greens opinion that lamb should no longer work for the riu is ridiculous. Green could not have cared less when punters did their money cold when his horse was pulled out of a race earlier in the season when a stinking hot favourite when it was striking the footrests. To me this is a very bad case of sour grapes from green. Are you Trumps brother. Forget CT - just admit this start and many others were shit and the ex started has no humility , class or acceptance = fired !!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Rusty said: I sincerely hope Mr Lamb is supported as well as he possibly can be in what may be a difficult time for him. We are all human afterall. I think now is a good time to perhaps put the past behind us, learn from it, and look forward to the future. Maybe he can visit the chaplain must like the IRU told Chris Johnson . He as a member of the RIU has slaughtered many horseman and they you ask the public to cry - give me strength . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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