Chief Stipe Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Gammalite said: As for Tim Williams , I fail to see why you and Paleface so worried about that ? 1. He is now driving the opponents of a stable you don't support 2. You like to support him as a driver , so now more chance to do so , in a big race. 3. His driving ability is pretty high so he might now beat some of the Cullen stable runners. (Off and Gone?) something a lot of posters would enjoy ? 4. Owners can put whoever they like on to drive . One friend of mine in Brissy uses a different youngster each week , which is a tremendous thing to do advances them all a little. 5 Who gives a fuck if Mark or Hayden or Nat (or Blair himself walked out) for Jewels day? They'll kiss and make up eventually and I'd even wager now , Williams will once again be driving a Cullen horse NZ CUP in Nov? Exactly. Tim actually has more opportunity now because he won't be restricted to driving All Stars 3rd stringers which are not quite up to the level of other stables best horses. He's learnt his trade well at the All Stars. His moving actually helps to raise the level of those competing against the All Stars. I see it as a win-win! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
With A Dream Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Does the advertisement ask for a stable foreman that can race drive? Or it is a matter of no consequence and not really anyone's business. Whether they ask for a race driver or not is irrelevant to your original point that there was not enough work which is clearly not the case. Maybe it's no ones business but it would be rare, given the length of time Tim worked there and the level of success they had, that that sort of news was not reported on as it is of interest to many people.. Generally speaking when a person leaves a high profile position in a planned and amicable way all parties are happy to discuss the situation. Do agree with your point that ultimately it is a win for both parties, Tim in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, With A Dream said: Whether they ask for a race driver or not is irrelevant to your original point that there was not enough work which is clearly not the case. Is or is it not true that the stable has significantly reduced the number of horses in the stable? I understand they have therefore it follows that there is less work to do. It also follows that if there are less horses then there are less race drives. So a non-race driving foreman could be expected to be employed. 8 minutes ago, With A Dream said: Maybe it's no ones business but it would be rare, given the length of time Tim worked there and the level of success they had, that that sort of news was not reported on as it is of interest to many people.. Generally speaking when a person leaves a high profile position in a planned and amicable way all parties are happy to discuss the situation. In fact that is not always the case. Perhaps the journalists didn't find it newsworthy or salacious enough? After all they are too busy standing behind the RIU in the hedges. Regardless of what was published there would be speculation and gossip - seems to be par for the course for Harness Racing in Canterbury. Been like that for at least 50 years that I know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Does the advertisement ask for a stable foreman that can race drive I heard they maybe going to advertise for piano player. same old bull lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, paleface adios said: I heard they maybe going to advertise for piano player. same old bull lol Who cares?! They'll keep on winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, paleface adios said: I heard they maybe going to advertise for piano player. same old bull lol A job for Ludwig then? Hey don't most big stables have a Non-driving Foreman ? a very important roll it is too. to avoid complication. some are even named as 'Trainer' to free up the actual real Trainers. Craig Cross (the farrier) was named training McCarthy's for several years. That let's the 'real' Trainers like Luke McCarthy drive horses for the opposition, like he did for All-stars for a long time when visiting Oz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Where is the evidence that Cullen is not the full time trainer? All you can see is Purdon and Rasmussen pitching up for the premier race day drives which is exactly what they said they would do. Brodie you seem to be intent on bringing the All Stars down because you see their success as detrimental to the industry. Instead of promoting people to rise to their level you want to bring them down. Don't you see some hypocrisy when you compare it to your criticism of the "socialist Ardern Government"? Actually Chief I do not see any link to Socialism whatsoever? Not bringing AllStars down, just stating that Purdon was always making the decisions. Are you saying that they did take a break from the stable? I say it didnt happen unless you think a few days is a break? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Gammalite said: You may be jumping the gun a little Brodster. Perhaps AFTER this very weekend of the Jewels , they'll be off to Aus winter carnivals? would of been silly to go before -hand. Mark does race AKUTA himself ? As for Tim Williams , I fail to see why you and Paleface so worried about that ? 1. He is now driving the opponents of a stable you don't support 2. You like to support him as a driver , so now more chance to do so , in a big race. 3. His driving ability is pretty high so he might now beat some of the Cullen stable runners. (Off and Gone?) something a lot of posters would enjoy ? 4. Owners can put whoever they like on to drive . One friend of mine in Brissy uses a different youngster each week , which is a tremendous thing to do advances them all a little. 5 Who gives a fuck if Mark or Hayden or Nat (or Blair himself walked out) for Jewels day? They'll kiss and make up eventually and I'd even wager now , Williams will once again be driving a Cullen horse NZ CUP in Nov? Gamma, which part of it is not the Cullens stable do you not understand? It was blatant BS that they took a break from training. Yes hopefully they will go to Brisbane for an extended stay! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: They'll keep on winning. why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 38 minutes ago, paleface adios said: why is that? Best yearling purchases. Best training methods. Best Vets. Best feed and supplement science. Best trainers. Best Drivers. Do you need anymore clues? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Brodie said: It was blatant BS that they took a break from training. How do you know they haven't taken a break from training? Are you hiding in the hedges? Must be big hedges. From the outside it looks like they have done exactly what they said they would do. Pull back a bit but still be involved and turn up for the plum drives on Premier Days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Brodie said: Actually Chief I do not see any link to Socialism whatsoever? Not bringing AllStars down, just stating that Purdon was always making the decisions. You've frequently said that their dominance is not good for Harness Racing. However you've only offered negative solutions to fix that - essentially get rid of them. Isn't up to the rest of the industry to lift their game? Te Akau are facing the same problem in Thoroughbred Racing where the criticism is nothing more than Tall Poppy Syndrome. Te Akau would find it tough in OZ as there are any number of trainers over there that compete at the top level. Sadly in New Zealand both in Harness and Gallops there isn't any depth. You can't blame the All Stars for that. Time everyone else pulled a finger! 1 hour ago, Brodie said: Are you saying that they did take a break from the stable? I say it didnt happen unless you think a few days is a break? How do you know it didn't happen? As I said in the post above from the outside it looks like they did exactly what they said they would do. Pull back a bit from the day to day operation, consult when required and pitch up for the plum drives on Premier Race Days. Unfortunately you are disappointed that they didn't get out completely so the mediocre could rise higher and you'd find better odds!! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 23 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Best yearling purchases. Best training methods. Best Vets. Best feed and supplement science. Best trainers. Best Drivers. Do you need anymore clues? Thank you for educating me. I always thought Mecca was in Saudi Arabia, not out at Rolleston. My mistake. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 26 minutes ago, Ludwig said: Thank you for educating me. I always thought Mecca was in Saudi Arabia, not out at Rolleston. My mistake. Well it isn't rocket science. The winning formula is quite simple for the likes of the All Stars, Te Akau, Waller, Maher. While they go about doing the simple things very well the rest are wondering what secret potions they must have. When the truth is they don't have any other than a training method. Another key tenet to these operations is they work on prevention of issues not waiting for issues to arise. They know the weak points common to all horses and apply preventative management to forestall them. Hence their ability to have their horses at peak for a long time and season after season. For example Waller uses Lasix during training (it's banned on race day) as he knows that all horses experience EIPH (Exercise Induced Pulmonary Haeomaraghing). He uses it as a preventative treatment. If you start with young horses that are well bred and devoid of conformation problems you have a massive head start. But then apply lessons learnt over decades of training and use preventative treatment to keep the inevitable issues that elite equine athletes all experience at bay. Yes it is an expensive approach as any owner will tell you with horses in those stables but it gets results. They also don't piss around with slow horses. Their approach is a scientific method approach and the reality is that many trainers in the industry particularly in this country do not have the ability to understand let alone implement such an approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 45 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: How do you know they haven't taken a break from training? Are you hiding in the hedges? Must be big hedges. From the outside it looks like they have done exactly what they said they would do. Pull back a bit but still be involved and turn up for the plum drives on Premier Days. Na! Cullen is not pulling the strings Chief, most can see this! No they have not taken a break at all, if they had, Tim would still be there! Anyway, no point debating it, they never stepped aside at all! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 Just now, Brodie said: Na! Cullen is not pulling the strings Chief, most can see this! No they have not taken a break at all, if they had, Tim would still be there! Anyway, no point debating it, they never stepped aside at all! Exactly no point in debating it because what does it matter either way? It isn't relevant to anything in actual fact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Best yearling purchases. Best training methods. Best Vets. Best feed and supplement science. Best trainers. Best Drivers. Do you need anymore clues? so your saying every one else is piss pour trainers . don't feed don't have good drivers don't purchases good yearling what load of crap 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, paleface adios said: so your saying every one else is piss pour trainers . don't feed don't have good drivers don't purchases good yearling what load of crap Very few do it consistently well at a high level across all facets of racing. Your explanation? Oh that's right undetectable secret potions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Very few do it consistently well at a high level across all facets of racing. Your explanation? Oh that's right undetectable secret potions. Despite a few blimps on the radar, I would consider Blair Orange to probably be pretty intelligent, going by his harness horse driving! Blair Orange spent many years working at the AllStars Stables as far as I am aware! The question needs to be asked then, If it was all because of these best training techniques, best eye, best vets etc. you would think then that when Blair went to Ken Baron’s, he would take all these BEST things to him? For all these BEST things, it did not work at Baron’s which ks surprising! Maybe there just is some other type of BEST that AllStars use, Just Asking? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Very few do it consistently well at a high level across all facets of racing. Your explanation? Oh that's right undetectable secret potions. Funnily enough if Nat and Mark 'disappeared' like Brodie, PA and others would like, Cullen isn't the leading stable anyway. The Dunn stable has 100 + winners this season and would dominate . already had several horses disqualified over the years, for Detectable 'secret potions' e.g caffiene , elevated CO2 , etc 1 minute ago, Brodie said: Maybe there just is some other type of BEST that AllStars use, Just Asking? Meanwhile the great team of Mark and Nat have Not, and if all the theorists want to say "It's a cover-up" or stewards and swab anaylists are turning a Blind Eye, I say Bull Crap.! Allstars won race after race, season after season in Aus as well as NZ , and after the smashing performances by Lazarus and Smolda and Spankem etc winning miracle miles , Interdominions in Perth , am sure the Australian SAMPLE SWAB analysis would be dumping them out immeadiately. No chance of getting away with anything. So they have to be Clean ?? can't beat the swabbing mate , no matter who you are. especially since the Australian winners 'Junior's Image' and 'Smoken Up' were both disqualified from Interdominion grand final wins run in NZ for positive swabs. There would be NO hesitation throwing the book at them. BEST drivers with BEST horses = BEST wins Brodster !!! even Vinny Knight proved that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Brodie said: The question needs to be asked then, If it was all because of these best training techniques, best eye, best vets etc. you would think then that when Blair went to Ken Baron’s, he would take all these BEST things to him? Orange is first and foremost a driver. I doubt he has the skills to organise systems nor be a fine detail person in all parts of the system. 5 minutes ago, Brodie said: Maybe there just is some other type of BEST that AllStars use, Just Asking? Bullshit Brodie you are inferring once again that there is some form of illegal activity happening that explains their performance. Yet there has been no evidence found. Keep looking under mushrooms Brodster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Gammalite said: Funnily enough if Nat and Mark 'disappeared' like Brodie, PA and others would like, Cullen isn't the leading stable anyway. The Dunn stable has 100 + winners this season and would dominate . That's not correct. The stats are only as they are because of Cullen starting out midway through the season. He has dominated since taking over as is evident in stakes won and his UDR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 Just now, Chief Stipe said: That's not correct. The stats are only as they are because of Cullen starting out midway through the season. He has dominated since taking over as is evident in stakes won and his UDR. Each season R DUNN usually starts very close to 600 runners per season and wins around 100 races. Both those totals have been exceded by them this season already. Most wins = leading trainer in my book. Dunn had Most wins last season too, over ALLStars, after very narrow 2nd placing's in the premiership, done on number of winners, the three previous seasons to that. If you get the wins , you get the title!!!. ask Ben Yole in Tas lol......... yeah you're probably right and a starters to win ratio not a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 21 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Both those totals have been exceded by them this season already. Most wins = leading trainer in my book. Cullen already has $1.5m in stakes and a UDR practically twice that of those above him with more wins. Combine Purdon, Rasmussen and Cullen Stake money and you get $3.3m. $1.4m more than Dunn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Cullen already has $1.5m in stakes and a UDR practically twice that of those above him with more wins. Combine Purdon, Rasmussen and Cullen Stake money and you get $3.3m. $1.4m more than Dunn. pretty good effort! would love my horse to be with any of them !!. Australian season (from January 1st) has the leaders on about 100 wins each and $1mil stakemoney each...... Ben Yole in Tas from near 1,400 starters (wow), and Grant Dixon in QLD from 800 starters. need that money to buy a home now . $1mil for an average home (in nice suburb) Brisbane auction today . Real estate agents are Door Knocking ??? to get houses for the Melbourne buyers. crazy. i had 2 this week. demand is through the roof because of people wanting out of Victoria (4th covid lockdown) Brisbane house prices going up $1000 per day over the past 2 months !! geeeez, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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