AWT

[Freda]

3 hours ago, Huey said:

Page 14 onwards might hint towards it

https://loveracing.nz/OnHorseFiles/Phase 1_NZTR_VenuePlan FINAL.pdf

600 horses meaning trainers whose tracks are closed will just upsticks to Riccarton or the horses from that area will, so cannibalised growth is that what you mean?

I imagine it's what THEY mean.

[Freda]

51 minutes ago, curious said:

That should do it. I'm curious to know whether numbers training have increased at either Cambridge or Riccarton subsequent the addition of the AWTs. Any info on that for Riccarton Freda? Or Cambridge anyone? I can see that Riccarton now probably does need 600 in work to bring their training operation into the black, especially with the additional costs of maintaining the AWT. But as noted, where the heck would the extra 400 come from?

Not as far as I am aware, so far anyway.

But we were told ( at the beginning) that overall costs would be reduced as there were fewer tracks to maintain  🤔

[curious]

39 minutes ago, Freda said:

Not as far as I am aware, so far anyway.

But we were told ( at the beginning) that overall costs would be reduced as there were fewer tracks to maintain  🤔

That may be true on a month by month or annual interim basis but Tim Mills originally said estimates were 55-60,000 per year for the AWT maintenance but he was clear that excluded amortising the cost of the prospective complete relaying at the 12 year point, which might perhaps add another 100k per year.

[billy connolly]

On 27/05/2022 at 8:38 AM, nomates said:

The best example i can give for you is to think about running on a grass park , now go and run on the beach , slightly different . But if all we did was run on beaches then over time we would become more competent on them . Runners would change their actions and the way they trained .

It's the same with wet track horses , a large proportion of them have high knee actions which are suited to going thru a heavy track but don't work on hard surfaces .

I stand to be corrected but doubt a beach surface is comparable to an AW polytrack. A beach surface provides excellent firm going with sufficient give to suit most horses and IMO is a lot easier to gallop/run on than synthetic or turf.

With a few exceptions most horses adept on wet tracks aren't fast enough on good/firm surfaces and no horse relishes a heavy bog track, just some (breeds) go through it better than others.

Comparing times posted at Timaru today (June 12th) to those at Riccarton's synthetic (June 3rd) - the polytrack was approx six seconds quicker over 1200m/1600m.

 

[Doomed]

4 minutes ago, billy connolly said:

 

With a few exceptions most horses adept on wet tracks aren't fast enough on good/firm surfaces and no horse relishes a heavy bog track, just some (breeds) go through it better than others.

 

 

I was pleased to see Polly Grey scratched yesterday, she had no chance on that track. She has been a bit unlucky on her trips to Brisbane to strike good tracks at just the wrong time, still she has benefited from those wet Sydney tracks for the last 16 or 17 weeks.

[Newmarket]

I have no issues with the Riccarton All Weather track. But let’s face it, the Sth Island jockeys have no idea how to ride on it. You still see horses challenging for the lead 400m out, gasping at the 300m mark. 

[Gospel of Judas]

On 12/06/2022 at 9:42 AM, Doomed said:

There will be when the new Group 1 stakes start.

Stop trying be that Fasthorse wanker!

[Doomed]

Interesting to note only 7 smallish fields with no ballots at Riccarton this week, compared to 9 good fields with 8 ballots who couldn't get a start on a heavy track at Timaru last Sunday. Timaru really should have had 10 races with more intelligent programming.

I would suggest there are quite a few lessons to be learnt from this, which are probably relevant to the northern AWTs as well.

Not all horses are suitable for the AWT, but of course we always knew that.

Many winter horses are actually waiting for wet tracks.

Timaru is much more centrally located to attract horses from Otago and Southland as well as Canterbury.

It will be essential going forward that winter horses have a grass track low key option at least every couple of weeks, ideally centrally located. 

Hopefully NZTR do respond to the lessons they have learnt so far when allocating dates and venues for next season. There may even need to be some changes made to allocated dates.

[Huey]

4 minutes ago, Doomed said:

 

Hopefully NZTR do respond to the lessons they have learnt so far when allocating dates and venues for next season. There may even need to be some changes made to allocated dates.

If you don't realise they are lessons , how are you supposed to learn?

[Doomed]

4 minutes ago, Huey said:

If you don't realise they are lessons , how are you supposed to learn?

I see they have just appointed a new COO so I imagine he will be all over this sort of thing and they will respond accordingly.

[mikeynz]

12 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Interesting to note only 7 smallish fields with no ballots at Riccarton this week, compared to 9 good fields with 8 ballots who couldn't get a start on a heavy track at Timaru last Sunday. Timaru really should have had 10 races with more intelligent programming.

I would suggest there are quite a few lessons to be learnt from this, which are probably relevant to the northern AWTs as well.

Not all horses are suitable for the AWT, but of course we always knew that.

Many winter horses are actually waiting for wet tracks.

Timaru is much more centrally located to attract horses from Otago and Southland as well as Canterbury.

It will be essential going forward that winter horses have a grass track low key option at least every couple of weeks, ideally centrally located. 

Hopefully NZTR do respond to the lessons they have learnt so far when allocating dates and venues for next season. There may even need to be some changes made to allocated dates.

Only 2 southern horses went to Timaru last sunday, unusual but I bet none go to Riccarton, strange anomaly in the calandar next week, Oamaru race on grass next Thursday and Riccarton race on grass two days later, seems a bit odd to me but as I have said before, I know nothing.

[nomates]

46 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Not all horses are suitable for the AWT, but of course we always knew that.

 

When they have an agenda that is inconsequential .

[Doomed]

I just had a quick check of upcoming programmes and I see there is no grass track "industry" meeting in Canterbury right through August and September. It's a funny old world isn't it?

So "Saturday" horses have to perform on the grass whereas lower tier horses have to use the AWT. If you are a trainer with a really promising maiden who hates the AWT what do you do? You do have to feel sorry for trainers in Canterbury trying to place a horse. I suppose since none of them seem to complain they must be reasonably happy.

[nomates]

5 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I just had a quick check of upcoming programmes and I see there is no grass track "industry" meeting in Canterbury right through August and September. It's a funny old world isn't it?

So "Saturday" horses have to perform on the grass whereas lower tier horses have to use the AWT. If you are a trainer with a really promising maiden who hates the AWT what do you do? You do have to feel sorry for trainers in Canterbury trying to place a horse. I suppose since none of them seem to complain they must be reasonably happy.

They may not be able to race on grass but they can keep their horses fit on the fantastic A/W training track , and after all that's all some are really worried about . 

[Freda]

38 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I just had a quick check of upcoming programmes and I see there is no grass track "industry" meeting in Canterbury right through August and September. It's a funny old world isn't it?

So "Saturday" horses have to perform on the grass whereas lower tier horses have to use the AWT. If you are a trainer with a really promising maiden who hates the AWT what do you do? You do have to feel sorry for trainers in Canterbury trying to place a horse. I suppose since none of them seem to complain they must be reasonably happy.

No point complaining.  Won't alter anything.

[Joe Bloggs]

Honest answer please team? How many horses does Mills race?

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, Freda said:

No point complaining.  Won't alter anything.

Every point in complaining individually and collectively.  Otherwise silence is deemed compliance.

[Doomed]

28 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Every point in complaining individually and collectively.  Otherwise silence is deemed compliance.

I'm struggling to think of an NZTR decision over recent years that has been reversed after widespread opposition from industry participants. I'm sure there must have been something, but nothing springs to mind.

I'm sure even NZTR wouldn't be so blinkered and bloody minded in their decison making that they won't see the contrasting support for Timaru and Riccarton this week and be big enough to come out and say perhaps we got that one wrong. Even Mills surely will admit that they need to readdress the allocation of dates given experiences to date.

[nomates]

21 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I'm struggling to think of an NZTR decision over recent years that has been reversed after widespread opposition from industry participants. I'm sure there must have been something, but nothing springs to mind.

I'm sure even NZTR wouldn't be so blinkered and bloody minded in their decison making that they won't see the contrasting support for Timaru and Riccarton this week and be big enough to come out and say perhaps we got that one wrong. Even Mills surely will admit that they need to readdress the allocation of dates given experiences to date.

No one will admit anything , they will say but look at the fields a couple of weeks ago , nothing to do with the 30k stakes of course , the fields for Thursday should set alarm bells ringing . Even Cambridge will hit a wall , they did last year , even allowing for the fact that Cambridge is the biggest training center in Australasia and have Matamata on their doorstep they can't fill all their fields all of the time .

Admit nothing and smile . 

[nomates]

28 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I'm struggling to think of an NZTR decision over recent years that has been reversed after widespread opposition from industry participants. I'm sure there must have been something, but nothing springs to mind.

 

The fact that you can't think of anything tells you that the people in the industry that carry weight have never stood up about anything that has been thrown at the industry , never rock their own boat .

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

I'm struggling to think of an NZTR decision over recent years that has been reversed after widespread opposition from industry participants. I'm sure there must have been something, but nothing springs to mind.

I'm sure even NZTR wouldn't be so blinkered and bloody minded in their decison making that they won't see the contrasting support for Timaru and Riccarton this week and be big enough to come out and say perhaps we got that one wrong. Even Mills surely will admit that they need to readdress the allocation of dates given experiences to date.

If it doesn't suit the agenda , they don't see it!

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

No point complaining.  Won't alter anything.

100% correct , they do not listen and they do not care.

They hold roadshows (something they guy who always picked up his phone was very fond of) but only for show , nothing more.

[Doomed]

Surely any well run industry body is going to be big enough to stand up and say "look, we got that one wrong." Especially in the face of overwheming evidence.  Even Cindy eventually said 'look, we got that one wrong" when it came to Potu.

[nomates]

43 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Surely any well run industry body is going to be big enough to stand up and say "look, we got that one wrong." Especially in the face of overwheming evidence.  Even Cindy eventually said 'look, we got that one wrong" when it came to Potu.

Mate , look at the state of the industry , does it look like they have ever accepted they got something wrong , they just double down . Plus we would have to be a well run industry first , we have run on the fringes of insolvency for years . 

[Bill]

Another satisfied trainer with the Cambridge AWT surface. Huge asset.

 

Trainer Ben Foote believes the Cambridge polytrack has been a godsend for the racing industry over winter and he took full advantage of his home track once again on Wednesday.

Cathay Empress got Foote’s day off to a winning start in the NZB Pearl Insurance Race (1550m) and two races later Ultimate Focus realised his potential when winning the Liquorland Cambridge 1300 by six lengths over stablemate Jimmy Dean.

“It was more about teaching this horse; he has got all the ability in the world,” Foote said.

“But to do it the way he did it didn’t surprise me.”

The Smart Missile gelding could return to the track for one more hit-out before heading for a spell.

“I don’t know whether to tip him out now or go for that final here next month,” Foote said.

He was also impressed by the runner-up effort of Jimmy Dean.

“He has got stacks of ability, but he is a little bit weird and doesn’t know where to put his legs sometimes,” Foote said.

“We even planned on leading today but he had no interest early. His last 400m was quite exceptional, so I am rapt.”

Earlier on the card Cathay Empress secured her second career win.

“She came to me after already having a wind op,” Foote said.

“She won’t raise a gallop on the grass, but the polytrack she seems to love it. If she can get out into a rhythm, and breathing properly, she has got stacks of ability.”

To continue Foote’s pleasing day, High Choice recorded a runner-up result in the ITM/GIB Progressive Winter Championship (1550m).

“I thought it was a matter of what he was going to win by at the 200m and Michael (McNab, jockey) just said he wanted to stay next to the other horse,” Foote said.

“We just might have to put a bit of gear on him. He is a horse that will be alright in the future.”

Reflecting on a positive day, Foote said he will continue to take full advantage of the all-weather track on his doorstep.

“I train here, we have trials here all the time, and races in the winter,” Foote said.

“We know what we are going to get when we come here. It is a huge asset to the industry.

“I do well here but we are not having to worry about grass tracks at this time of year, there is no pulling the pin on races or trials after a couple of heats.

“It is good racing and there is a good atmosphere here as well.

“I think it is worth its weight in gold.”