curious Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: They didn't. They were island hoppers driven by hunger. What is Te Kāpehu Whētu then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 3 hours ago, the galah said: Calling someone racist because they say they prefer to hear a presenter on trackside talk in a language they understand instead of one they don't,is such an over the top comment. Suggesting his comments should have been moderated or blocked i think the stupidest thing i have ever read on here. Thanks yes I agree and you are 100% right. Calling someone a racist is a pretty serious slur. Its handed out far too often in todays climate. Comparable to calling someone antisemetic because they disagree with Israel's policies against the Palestinians. I fully understood the presenters comments. I was drawing attention to the irony of thinking they had the pronunciation right but in fact worse than before. However my main point was the greyhounds which have wrapped themselves around the galloping audience on TV. I wonder if its something Glenda Hughes arranged with her TAB contacts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 8 hours ago, curious said: What is Te Kāpehu Whētu then? A recent construct based on a romanticised revision of history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 45 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: A recent construct based on a romanticised revision of history. Oh my God, you're not the Chief Stipe, you're the Messiah!........FFS, now I feel I wasted all my trips to Museums and in the case of Maori migration from the northern islands of Tahiti, to Easter Island and beyond, I'll let the curator of the South Pacific studies in Santiago know they are wrong....thank you for you setting us straight oh great one...... 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carter Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 17 hours ago, the galah said: Calling someone racist because they say they prefer to hear a presenter on trackside talk in a language they understand instead of one they don't,is such an over the top comment. Suggesting his comments should have been moderated or blocked i think the stupidest thing i have ever read on here. Yes you might be correct. I should have said it was a racist comment. I am glad you picked it up. You might not be as stupid as your" Hide Behind" name implies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carter Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, Tim Carter said: Yes you might be correct. I should have said it was a racist comment. I am glad you picked it up. You might not be as stupid as your" Hide Behind" name implies. And may I ask, why the correct pronuciation of a Maori place name is something you don't understand? . My 5 year old grandchildren ( twins) can pronounce Maori place names correctly and they are in a mainstream primary school where all the children ( mostly pakeha) do likewise. If my post was stupid, then you run a close 2nd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tim Carter said: Yes you might be correct. I should have said it was a racist comment. I am glad you picked it up. You might not be as stupid as your" Hide Behind" name implies. I get that Maori language is an important part of Maori identity and culture and that it gives those with maori heritage a sense of connection and pride around their heritage. I fully understand that all maori should be encouraged to pursue that. What i don't get is how maori language has been allowed to become part of a much larger agenda by those outside maoridom that believe to be seen as inclusive and caring,you have to have certain attributes and knowledge,maori language being one of those. People should learn it if they want,but those teaching and informing us of what its really like to be maori and the significance of their language and their culture should have a close connection to knowing what it means to be maori. Ask yourself this. If in 15 years time the government reaches its target of having 1 million new zealanders being able to speak maori and knowing all things maori,are you going to be happy having the asian professor teaching your grandchildren everything about maori culture and language,the english opera singer singing the maori national anthem at the start of a rugby test,the american tour guide telling the tourists about the significance of the rotorua tourist attractions or visiting the site of some of the maori wars and talking about the history. Because to me that is where you may be heading. Having a pakeha talk on the news or on trackside as if they somehow have a sense of what being maori i find to be unauthentic and to a degree patronising.. It feels fake to me. 52 minutes ago, Tim Carter said: And may I ask, why the correct pronuciation of a Maori place name is something you don't understand? . My 5 year old grandchildren ( twins) can pronounce Maori place names correctly and they are in a mainstream primary school where all the children ( mostly pakeha) do likewise. If my post was stupid, then you run a close 2nd. I never commented on the correct pronunciation did i. I commented on you saying someone should be barred or moderated because they had a view that you interpret to be racist.That you somehow think you can tell from a couple of sentences that its ok to slur someone with that. Edited September 17, 2022 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carter Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 59 minutes ago, the galah said: I get that Maori language is an important part of Maori identity and culture and that it gives those with maori heritage a sense of connection and pride around their heritage. I fully understand that all maori should be encouraged to pursue that. What i don't get is how maori language has been allowed to become part of a much larger agenda by those outside maoridom that believe to be seen as inclusive and caring,you have to have certain attributes and knowledge,maori language being one of those. People should learn it if they want,but those teaching and informing us of what its really like to be maori and the significance of their language and their culture should have a close connection to knowing what it means to be maori. Ask yourself this. If in 15 years time the government reaches its target of having 1 million new zealanders being able to speak maori and knowing all things maori,are you going to be happy having the asian professor teaching your grandchildren everything about maori culture and language,the english opera singer singing the maori national anthem at the start of a rugby test,the american tour guide telling the tourists about the significance of the rotorua tourist attractions or visiting the site of some of the maori wars and talking about the history. Because to me that is where you may be heading. Having a pakeha talk on the news or on trackside as if they somehow have a sense of what being maori i find to be unauthentic and to a degree patronising.. It feels fake to me. I never commented on the correct pronunciation did i. I commented on you saying someone should be barred or moderated because they had a view that you interpret to be racist.That you somehow think you can tell from a couple of sentences that its ok to slur someone with that. Like a Chinese Gisborne Mayor that speaks fluent Maori? Whether you agree or not, "Maori thing" and "Maori" stuff in the context they were used is offensive as is slinging off at the Presenter who was trying her best to pronounce the Maori place names correctly. In closing, Maori's were forced to learn English and punished if they spoke Maori. Forward 100 years or more the wheel turned and apart from a very small minority ( perhaps racists and there are some, like it or not) New Zealanders have embraced the change. END! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 8 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said: Oh my God, you're not the Chief Stipe, you're the Messiah!........FFS, now I feel I wasted all my trips to Museums and in the case of Maori migration from the northern islands of Tahiti, to Easter Island and beyond, I'll let the curator of the South Pacific studies in Santiago know they are wrong....thank you for you setting us straight oh great one...... You've never actually sailed a boat obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: You've never actually sailed a boat obviously. No, but I did sail to AUS in 1973 on the Northern Star! ,.......thank fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tim Carter said: Like a Chinese Gisborne Mayor that speaks fluent Maori? Whether you agree or not, "Maori thing" and "Maori" stuff in the context they were used is offensive as is slinging off at the Presenter who was trying her best to pronounce the Maori place names correctly. In closing, Maori's were forced to learn English and punished if they spoke Maori. Forward 100 years or more the wheel turned and apart from a very small minority ( perhaps racists and there are some, like it or not) New Zealanders have embraced the change. END! Where we disagree is where you say "apart from a very small minority new zealanders have embraced the change".I would say a more accurate description is those with the loudest voices are driving change. So the wheel may have turned,but in reality has it? If you want the next generation to behave,think,talk as you think they should, then you do so by creating an education system that teaches them in a way to result in them believing what you want them to believe. History shows that. Those pushing agendas like how to defines ones sex,what is racist what is not,whether opportunity should be based more on things such as race or gender over merotocracy, etc are driving what is taught in schools. Maori language is part of their agenda.You say its a good thing,i say be careful what you wish for. And where does pasifika speakers come into the equation. Just under 10% of new zealanders are from pacific nations,yet they say only about 37% can speak their own language.Why does the maori language trump that when it comes to their education? When you refer to racists,a word i believe used to slur people far too easily,you seem to be coming from one side of the argument. But of course they exist on both sides. Edited September 17, 2022 by the galah 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Tim Carter said: Like a Chinese Gisborne Mayor that speaks fluent Maori? Whether you agree or not, "Maori thing" and "Maori" stuff in the context they were used is offensive as is slinging off at the Presenter who was trying her best to pronounce the Maori place names correctly. In closing, Maori's were forced to learn English and punished if they spoke Maori. Forward 100 years or more the wheel turned and apart from a very small minority ( perhaps racists and there are some, like it or not) New Zealanders have embraced the change. END! I get the impression you call people racist because of something that happened 100 years ago. That's common with people who study history, subconsciously they believe they are living in that period. No one currently living had anything to do with that period so its crazy blaming them. I would question anyone trying to rewrite history. I have never seen anyone punished for speaking Maori but no doubt there could have been instances but to make sweeping assertions it was common is not backed up by fact or evidence. Rather than blame all and sundry I suggest that the justice system and dodgy lawyers led to the creation of todays grievance industry. Non Maori would have been victims as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) On 9/15/2022 at 8:26 PM, mikeynz said: Personally I dont think we should be subject to all this Maori stuff like you get on radio and tv and I'm not anti Maori, it's no different to being subject to religious rhetoric, lots of this stuff is part of the woke society, so is this shit with the rugby union having to have a certain number of fems on the board. Thanks for the likes people, when you actually think about it if you want to listen to maori stuff then watch and listen to the moari tv channel or if you want to watch religion then watch a religious channel, imagine the kerfuffle if they were giving out tips for the races on the tv1 sports section there would be a uproar, simple fact everything is appropriate, at, right place right time. Edited September 17, 2022 by mikeynz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 14 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said: No, but I did sail to AUS in 1973 on the Northern Star! ,.......thank fuck. I guess starvation, tribal rejection and over population forced you to get in a canoe and try and find another island to live. Anything else and you'd be labelled a colonist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 16 hours ago, the galah said: If you want the next generation to behave,think,talk as you think they should, then you do so by creating an education system that teaches them in a way to result in them believing what you want them to believe. History shows that. 100 % . Every ethnic group is educated as the reigning government in any country wishes them to be educated. involving mainly cultural and religious tradition. (poor afghani's with Taliban back in charge have set the female education back 100 years again) Meanwhile , I did Maori education at school in NZ many moons ago and can pronounce Maori quite ok. Primary school education in Australia didn't seem to bother to have 'Aboriginal' studies lol...... at least you care in New-Zealand. !! Lets see how they go today with Maori Pronounciation anyway at FLEMINGTON races today ?? Race 5 The Victoria Oaks Preview >>> No 3 WHAKAMANA . hope they get it out ok !!! some of the tv broadcast idiots are going to struggle ? hahahaha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I guess starvation, tribal rejection and over population forced you to get in a canoe and try and find another island to live. Anything else and you'd be labelled a colonist. There were about 100,000 Kiwis living in Oz when I got here, now about 800,000, so are they colonists too? or refugees? Huge Maori community on the northern Goldie, some are now 3rd generation, they didnt need to navigate by the stars, only 2 hours away but a whole different world, #fortunefavoursthebrave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonkatime! Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 On 16/09/2022 at 6:53 PM, curious said: I might add that te reo Maōri is not a secondary language. It is an official language of New Zealand as is English (and New Zealand Sign Language). At least equal statutorily and if anything primary given its widespread use preceded English here. It’s not really relevant to anything to do with the conversation but I don’t think English is actually an offical language of New Zealand. There’s been a couple of petitions and bills in parliament to make it one but I don’t think they were drawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 29 minutes ago, Tonkatime! said: It’s not really relevant to anything to do with the conversation but I don’t think English is actually an offical language of New Zealand. There’s been a couple of petitions and bills in parliament to make it one but I don’t think they were drawn. Yes. My error. Thanks for the correction. There are two official languages in Aotearoa New Zealand – Māori and New Zealand Sign Language. These were established by the Māori Language Act 1987 and the New Zealand Sign Language Act 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 1 hour ago, curious said: Yes. My error. Thanks for the correction. There are two official languages in Aotearoa New Zealand – Māori and New Zealand Sign Language. These were established by the Māori Language Act 1987 and the New Zealand Sign Language Act 2006 Which just goes to show you how pointless such proclamations are in New Zealand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted September 18, 2022 Author Share Posted September 18, 2022 9 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Which just goes to show you how pointless such proclamations are in New Zealand. There are scores of different languages spoken within closed circles throughout New Zealand. Therefore there needs to be a default language so that the country can function. That happens to be English. Its also accepted that Maori is an/the official language which needs to be incorporated in the scheme of things in some instances more so than English. However that doesn't alter the fact that there has to be one default language. Years ago there was a movement around the world to make Esperanto just such a language. Creating a hybrid language as is happening now is rather a debatable strategy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 (edited) On 15/09/2022 at 7:44 PM, Tim Carter said: Maori thing? Not racist? You have posted similar posts in the past and by the way I am half Maori . That you can find fault with the way this Pakeha lady has taken time to pronounce a Maori place name correctly is interesting . So you think it is natural to incorrectly pronouce Otaki and Opaki . If you object to my so called slur , you will have to live with it . No offence Tim but there is absolutely no racism if the majority of people do not want to speak Māori. If you want to speak it then do so with those that wish to speak it. It is a language that has got absolutely no benefit whatsoever for the NZ population and even Maori do not know how to speak it! The BS of having it chucked down our throats by the media is absolutely repugnant and people who want to live their lives are over it! We live in New Zealand and not this other place that you want the name changed to! Call me a rascist if you want to cos that is what you do, but I am speaking for the silent NZ majority. Edited September 18, 2022 by Brodie 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Brodie said: No offence Tim but there is absolutely no racism if the majority of people do not want to speak Māori. If you want to speak it then do so with those that wish to speak it. It is a language that has got absolutely no benefit whatsoever for the NZ population and even Maori do not know how to speak it! The BS of having it chucked down our throats by the media is absolutely repugnant and people who want to live their lives are over it! We live in New Zealand and not this other place that you want the name changed to! Call me a rascist if you want to cos that is what you do, but I am speaking for the silent NZ majority. Thats the point isn't it brodie. The last census in NZ in 2018 said only 4% of the population could hold a conversation in Maori,up 1% from the previous census. Whereas 90% can in english. The whole point of having language is to be able to communicate with someone. Today they kept playing maori songs on trackside,so i just turned it off.Whats the point in that stuff when over 95% of the population can't understand a word being said. Even if they reach their goal in 2040 of one in 6 being able to hold a basic conversation,that would still mean 83% of the population won't be able to. I have heard many times people say the same thing. Its an issue polarising and dividing people where there was none before. Its what the labour government is best at doing. Edited September 18, 2022 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 (edited) On 9/15/2022 at 8:26 PM, mikeynz said: Personally I dont think we should be subject to all this Maori stuff like you get on radio and tv and I'm not anti Maori, it's no different to being subject to religious rhetoric, lots of this stuff is part of the woke society, so is this shit with the rugby union having to have a certain number of fems on the board. Might I add none of us want Putins rhetoric either. Edited September 24, 2022 by mikeynz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 11 hours ago, mikeynz said: Might I add none of us want Putins rhetoric either. I do, and its now difficult with RT telly being removed by the wokes running Sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 On 9/17/2022 at 5:49 PM, the galah said: Where we disagree is where you say "apart from a very small minority new zealanders have embraced the change".I would say a more accurate description is those with the loudest voices are driving change. So the wheel may have turned,but in reality has it? If you want the next generation to behave,think,talk as you think they should, then you do so by creating an education system that teaches them in a way to result in them believing what you want them to believe. History shows that. Those pushing agendas like how to defines ones sex,what is racist what is not,whether opportunity should be based more on things such as race or gender over merotocracy, etc are driving what is taught in schools. Maori language is part of their agenda.You say its a good thing,i say be careful what you wish for. And where does pasifika speakers come into the equation. Just under 10% of new zealanders are from pacific nations,yet they say only about 37% can speak their own language.Why does the maori language trump that when it comes to their education? When you refer to racists,a word i believe used to slur people far too easily,you seem to be coming from one side of the argument. But of course they exist on both sides. Kiwis embrace Te Reo because Maori heritage is what makes our country unique. Differentiates it from all the other former british colonies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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