Gammalite

Fear it is then Chief, of course, you are trying to scare the horse yes ! to go into barrier, or a Man from snowy river 'round-up' crack the whip, also breaking in , is VERY useful, while long-reigning often a little flick here and there, you can drive them up truck tailgates, lunging in the bull-ring to mouth them, all sorts of things that they won't do by just asking them nicely .lol.. So fully agree with you , whips are needed (in some capacity here and there) NO WAY could I possible drive in a race without one and get a horse to produce it's best with just reign work and noise.

Horse racing won't stop chief , there is $Billions tied up in it. Thousands of employees, traditions like Christmas that just will carry on since roman chariot racing days. The NSW racing premier set out to close Greyhound racing down after some ethical atrocities, But couldn't as too many GOOD folk employed in that industry as well and putting them all out just not Justifiable. Not even remotely possible in horse racing industry. BTW, i notice Horace did say the overseas riders do strike with the whip 'to get horses attention' , so he wasn't asserting they don't use the whip. Your arguement is not great about stockwhips , behind barrier nor breaking in , as yes they are used on those occasions to effect often. You're NOT exactly belting them with it though.

OMG , i meant Lisa , sorry Chief. Lisa Allpress. but we could roll with Linda Jones MBE if you like. I remember her doing a great job for NZ racing when i was a kid, and a true Trailblazer !! not sure about her whip work though .lol...

I think you read it wrong Chief as Horace had a paragraph about the jockeys carrying a whip overseas , 'to get horses attention' which he was fine with, but was against 'Belting them ' with it . nothing about banning.

Great post Horace ! !! you mentioned so many situations well, current NZ, overseas riders and PUB/tab riders . I just watched a replay of a 'HIGH'pressure race overseas, to see what those jockeys were doing. I chose the last JAPAN CUP, as always a stirring contest at 2400m. The fabulous ALMOND EYE winning and wow, those topclass jockeys and horses driving close to the finish for high stake-money placings, and I couldn't see a whip in action !! just excellent racing. Yes the whip use has been 'phasing-out ' for some time. In harness racing , they can't lift arm or even put reins in one hand to use whip, and in racing the young ladies with fine balance and ability to get horses to give them their best are leading the way (Kah in Oz and Danielle and Linda in NZ) as the 'belters' phase out . Everyone wants what's best for the horse. your paragraph Horace, on overseas where they still are 'Showing' the horse the whip for attention is quite relevant as well. Hong Kong racing they often see Moreira and others waving it up outside winkers to get the horses attention and still be there to race and do their best. Horses are great and love to run, but they still need some prompting to do their best.

I think you are close there Karrots. the big fields DO NOT help IMO. everyone wants to have a winner , so you need them Winning. I would say smaller fields so instead of 14-15-16 you go to 8-9 or 10 runners. (Punters more likely to hit a winner too and stay loyal) 2 winners instead of current 1. You need to cut the stake money to be able to do that and spread it around, BUT your chances of earning some increase dramatically. as an owner or trainer, plus bonus of more WINNNERS !!! Also have to squeeze extra meeting in to cater extra races, and shorten distance of race (BRODIE will hate that lol) so that the horses can race 'Week to week ' without burning out.

Fair call there Chief, you have made the most of it and developed a great young lady..! My dad travelled with 4 Blokes and a fine horse from Tassie named HALWES in 1968 to NZ for Akld Interdominion , and ended up staying on after, so bought young family out to NZ as well then (he had lost family members, horses, equipment in the tragic HUGE 1967 Tasmanian Bushfires Disaster, that set half of Tassie alight, and gave the horse game away with heartbreak I think. some truly unimaginable trauma done to him) , took me to races at ripe old age of 14 many years later in 1978 Alex park. great kiwi man John Devlin sent me to Oz in the 80's with his horses. This century has been weekend 'Kids Sport' and those sort of things lol.. both kids graduated past 15 months with 2 degrees each from uni and recently left home too ! wahoo ! time to get back to races ? lol..

Great yarn /story chief! great memories. Yes I take that comment back that , well especially NZ with a lot of the beaut PICNIC races on through the summer at gallops or trots meetings., sure to be lots of kids entertainment on. and the littlies sure do love horses .. I would guess they even have ponies out the back for kids rides, and the like.. would be a good day out.

Hahaha yeah the Barmy Army sure give it to us in Oz at the cricket about that Convict angle , with their chants and songs lol. they actually hand out song sheets so the locals can join in !!! bit of fun. hahaha be a great match for BGP by the sound of it.. Your country has a Female Leader so pretty BIG leadership role obtained. So great effort by Jacinda. Julia Gillard in Aus made it to that post too, but I think suffered a bit of harassment and bullying as you suggested can happen. Anyway at the races WOMEN are getting there !! The main act on your tracks sees Danielle and Linda winning heaps. How good are they? Jamie Kah is leading and might win prestigious Victoria Jockey Premiership !!!!!!! a fab rider. Michelle won Melbourne Cup .. great ,, the Time honoured New Zealand trotting Cup won by Kerryn Manning in 2015 by a woman trainer driver for the first time ever , beating the ALLstars barn ( who of course have the wonderful Queensland lady Natalie Rasmussen , the current Interdominion Champion, and world class driver ) Nobody should want to do that Stewarding/ Investigating hahahah horrible stuff, girls/women should be smart and 'Run away' from all that shitty stuff if possible. So the Racing Industry really has the girls at the Forefront !! strappers, jocks, trainers (ask Gai) all the beautifully dressed young ladies in the crowd. Why worry about a few blokes on the Punt ???

What's this? All of Dunedin in the sulky with me Karrots? hehehe.Extra weight will be a Big Handicap for the Celt? Actually did have a bloke in the sulky with me once in a race. John McMullen Jnr, (the dad of current Top Notch drivers that go around in near every race these days in Brisbane, Pete,Narissa,Danielle and Tahlia.) Tipped him out (right over the fence too! on top corner) so thought it only fair to give him a ride back to the stables on the side of the gig. hahaha ... Gave me a gobful all the way back too hahaha

I took my kids to an NRL match once and the Language being dished out all around me was appalling towards opposition and referee. so that was a ONCE only experience. didn't go back. Perhaps if these chants are as bad as you say they are at the races, I wouldn't want to be near them either. My daughter donned the graduation robes and graduated UQ last Friday as a honours lawyer, so I am happy with my family achievement. Plenty of beautiful places to take kids growing up (beaches, theme parks , etc) I never took them to races as is a location mainly for Adults , punting, drinking , having a good time , just like in your video. Not a lot there for kids. Plenty of women get togeather at races and LOVE to dress up . Is that you?? Give it a go for heavens sake. !!!! You might even enjoy yourself instead of being such a PARTY POOP. oh sorry I mean PARTY POOPER. or too busy criticising people having Fun as a group, ??? and

Thank you Thomass for the post. That was magnificent. I enjoyed that video very much !! some great horses winning, some excellent Punters, A happy racecourse day and facilities and Fun had by many. You kiwis know how to Party !!!!!! well done. !!

Not sure why you STEREOTYPE a whole group, and call them sexist/ chauvinist, Frats, whatever. It is indeed yourself who is sexist and Anti-social for implying this. That group of gentleman would be from all walks of life , married, have kids, wealthy, poor, single, gay, happy, , ...etc. and They are having a Punt and a Drink and some Lunch and enjoying the RACING !! Sure you don't want to throw in ALCOHOLICS and PROBLEM GAMBLERS with your Stereotype? You could be right, and some might just fit that sterotype as well. BUT NOT ALL . BoysGetPaid IMPORTANTLY , Support the industry of Horse Racing !! NZTR, TAB, and racecourse officials should be Thanking them for their presence ??? I couldn't care less in the slightest way, if women are in that mob or not. not sure if that is chauvinistic ? No doubt the Doubting Thomass thinks it is ,I do think it is a great idea to support groups/movements that support racing, Whatever STUPID name they use. p.s. Yes If the Chants are offending to women, or any group in earshot, (I have no idea what they are, or why they find that necessary) That should be stopped by security, as that is not supporting racing.

Thanks for that explanation. I have seen some ordinary ethical things regarding greyhounds myself over the years, and do remember the NSW premier was going to close the industry at one stage in that state. ( then reneged). The Poutama drive on THE SPORTSMAN, was more a horse making the error early , leading to the driver adopting his original plan of 'going forward' once horse back pacing. Possibly Hopples length on that horse needs looking at. Herlihy mentioned in another thread , should of got a suspension on KRUG at Auckland, as he actually caused others to gallop. Something that Poutama didn't do. So I see what you mean with Leniency by Stipes on the BIG BOYS. Herlihy thought he had that race won as well, sitting quiet, DIVE-bombed by the horse 3 back on the fence late, so thought he made HUGE error , that end of race as well, (as the first bend) .getting old Tony ?? lol......... McKendry on the winner beating KRUG ,put the reins in one hand at a point in the straight as well and 'Got-off" lol....

Yes the bills are huge now, so you need something that wins. I actually nearly bought myself one for christmas. They still have a Claiming race now and then, and was within a cats cock-hair of putting in a Claim for SAM IS PERFECTION for $7000 on Dec 22nd. someone else did instead. Since then he has had 5 starts this year, and has won in 1.53.2. ..... holy moley!!!!!!... in tomorrow too. 7 k for a 1.53 horse !!!!! ready to go ! what a bargain. A cups prospect not that long ago running that fast.

Fair call Galah, .....and yes ugly accusations , and the gentleman was very upset about an incident or 2 but seems without charges being laid/ made for such atrocious activity , he is being a little harsh on someone he obviously doesn't like. Maybe he could mention his Involvement to clarify his knowledge of said incidents ? what evidence ? said they were Sprung by curator yet nothing happened after????? Police would of been involved if that was the case. I could accuse many trainers of all sorts of things but don't, without evidence, without charges made by officials doing their job, it just doesn't seem right to do so. bit of humour to get over it lol.........

Tell ya what Karrots , back in 1994 we were at University (UQ) with a horse and all of a sudden total Chaos , as a Flying Fox carried virus (named HENDRA virus from the Brisbane Suburb it started at) was killing horses left , right and centre... And even worse, People died as well..Everyone was terrified as never been or seen anything like it. Vic Rail a horse trainer Died !! and to date 4 of the 7 people (vet staff treating the sick horses) that caught it off treating horses have died !! (the last in 2009.) imagine if it went out of control like Covid ? wow ! it was a close call and VERY scary. I HATE those BATS flying over each night even now.

Sounds like you don't want a conviction then.lol. What about charges?? does he have to face any ?? Now you've done it . Big Andre has found out I 'May' of called him a killer and a Liar .............

Well until a conviction is recorded , no good just saying someone is a killer and a liar. 'Andre The Giant' in the photo might be a killer and a liar too ??

No , different Andre. You are probably looking for this fella

Yes , I'm just watching Wodonga gallops on tele right now, and not many of these horses are Never Ever going to return a profit for the owners. The owners are sure to get a thrill 'having a go' though. Hope you get to have another crack with a horse ownership someday ( if you missed the first time ), you must be BIG chance of lucky second time round !! law of averages. Training and shoeing and feed etc, all 3 times the cost of what I paid in the 80's and 90's racing them , so haven't been tempted to make a comeback ownership as yet, lol.........win bet on Probabeel does me for thrill these days lol.

Some people enjoy racing horses Brodie. They do get a thrill just seeing them go around.!!! That's the trainers objective !! and you'd be surprised just how many horses don't even get to the races. When owners buy or breed a racehorse, they commit with friends often, and rely on the Trainer for progress. Can't just 'throw the toys' on poor form, IF the trainer gives it hope. (see next sentence) NZ horsemen are notorious for giving horses 'TIME' to develop or improve. You are used to BIG bets to give you thrills that win. Most folk just happy with little bets , and horses that race , that DON"T WIN that often as are having FUN with it !!! (p.s I grant you SpitfireA is bit short of thrills ...lol.......)

Is the big problem really for NZ, not enough races to have a lot of Open Class races. When they do come up , even on the provincial circuits /courses they are from a STAND. so horses can be handicapped. Standing starts are to be honest , a POOR betting medium. NZ cup even getting risky. The handicapping system in Oz regions caters for all the local horses to be able to get a Race start Every Week. This is Excellent for the horse owners, (so horses pay their way), but the fields End Up Being ordinary and uninspiring anyway (no stand -outs so hard to pick as all graded to be similar) . and then become a Poor betting medium unfortunately. The short course racing also really caters for 'Good Barrier Draw s' too, so it is almost silly backing number 5 and wider on the mobile barrier arm, as chances Way slimmer , right from the get-go. The bigger fields in NZ harness racing, do mean bigger divi's on the tote, but it's harder to pick the winner too. (weight of numbers against you) and another Good Thing is like that WInton 'mile and a half ' racing yesterday, it gives them a chance from the back of field too.! That was quite good racing as All runners are a Chance.....

Good points , that '20 something' demographic does unfortunately have more underlining issues though. As well as the 'PERILS of Gambling' drummed into the young folk these days, (my 2 don't bet) they have a HUGE chunk of the 'Animal Activists Issues' thrown in their face as well. So they still turn up (to drink and socialise certain racedays, or as you say they might put a band on or something as some sort of promotion, to get them in) but ask the younger ones who Melody Belle is ?? and you get a blank look on a lot of the faces. Better off with BoysGetPaid who have a bet, know the horses, and hopefully even Love Horses and racing, like the keen racing folk like myself on BOAY (except the 'Doubting Thomas' who doesn't seem keen)

Why would you NOT market towards a group That SUPPORTS your sport. ??? good on them..... The BARMY ARMY has a pretty poor name as well (more mad name than sexist?) but will be welcomed to support the English cricketers where they go (chants and all) You don't like the name of the group? get over it....... It's called having Fun mate, and supporting your sport and passion. The photo is brilliant at the start of your thread here.!!! some blokes getting togeather, having fun , SUPPORTING the industry with a bet , And Actually turning up at the track on raceday. !! (sales of refreshments and lunches good) I Can't find a problem. The girls that know them, would wish them well !! like sending guys on a footy trip ! RACING Benefits from their participation !!!! (not kids like mine in their 20's who go along certain racedays for drinks and to dress-up' show-off, don't bet, don't even look at the horses at all) now there is something the clubs and NZTR should be worried about.