Gammalite

No one is onto the Grand Circuit Champions of our sport yet. Bit of a shame as they are very impressive and shows just how the interest in the great sport has faded to just a personal level in NZ. (therefore dropping off a cliff) . Horse 1 / Leap to Fame , won the Christmas Cup over the weekend . was Win No.60 , (and has 12 x 2nds) from 77 lifetime starts. and now passes an incredible $6,000,000 earned. The Three previous Grand Circuit Champions are New-Zealnd bred beauties. All stallions at Stud now . Here is Horse 2 answer below. clue for Horse 3 and 4 from the opening to this thread, they were both Open Class trained horses in NZ? and both by Bettors Delight ?, like Leap To Fame is as well. Quiz answer to Horse 2 / is KING OF SWING . raced with North Island trainer Ray Green early in career , went on to be Grand Circuit Champion on 3 occasions from 2020-2022 , winning 3 Miracle Miles along the way for Luke McCarthy when he was sold across the Tasman. His first Crop of 2 year-olds will be racing 2026 🏆. will be great to see how they go !!. fingers crossed for some good un's. here is the great horse in winning action . finished his career at 44 wins from 82 starts and $3.3 mill.

yes it is. $1,000 is a big bet. always has been. I came to Australia from NZ in the 80's and the limits were about $1,000 then is all the bookies would take on one bet. you had to take a second bet (at probably lower odds ) if you wanted to put more on. they are SPECIAL KNOWN Punters Brodster. Of course they can get SPECIAL treatment for Biggish bets. Just like Boys get Paid. common sense. Casino's for example have 'High Rollers' that they let on for thousands on some of the games. MUGS like you and the general public only let on at what the usual table limits are . $500 or whatever it is per bet. It's all quite Normal mate. you live under a rock and can't work it out ?? it's not that hard . Special People/clients/pundits always get PREFERENTIAL Treatment . In all walks of life. not just betting. It's pretty normal . Has happened since time again. 👍

no mate. these are BIG prize races . they have to throw the sink at them if they want to Win. Craig Williams , near the best AUS jock was giving old 'Private Eye' an absolute flogging up the straight in a Million dollar race they just ran at Pakenham. The winner WARNIE came zooming home to take the $450,000 by a half head from Williams as it panned though. Bit by jezus Craig tried super hard to win it. 2nd prize was $110,000 .A big difference? . you ain't gunna sit there like a sack of spuds if you want to win these races. At the BIG NZ trots , the NZ Cup was run and won at Addington . KINGMAN doing the unthinkable and coming around Leap To Fame late on ,(who is one of the best horses ever raced) . and Won !! a stunning achievement the NZ stewards promptly give the driver (Luke McCarthy) the greatest horseman in Australia a Week suspension and a $3,300 fine. so instead of a handshake and congratulations for Winning the BIggest race going . It's cop that ya mug. 🤣 NZ wokeness now reaching Cup level ? 😉 and amazing achievements tarnished a tickle. as per Rooke today in your Waikato Cup as well ? . Great horses efforts tarnished by over officialdom. It's like they don't want the jockeys to try hard ? (which would cause MUCH more Contraversy than anything happening now) some can't see it that way , but believe me if those jocks and drivers stopped trying hard, it would be Super BAD for racing.

Fair enough. I would still contest the 'Laws of Probability' in mathematics and even calculating for an event to occur, are slightly different to the PREDICTION and OPINION of an outcome. but they do all inter-twine I guess. Gammalite didn't win at Addington in 5 attempts as the Brodster had the Canterbury locals 'fired up' far too much 😎 so the 'Prediction' of a NZ Cup win (or any Addington Win didn't happen , and the 'Opinion' of that is well > "That Sucks'. 🤣 but the 'Laws of Probability' of winning the NZ Cup off the Handicap (on 2 occasions) given to him suggested he would Not win the race anyway.

Always associated it with Whinging Poms. Do they say that in NZ? Is very very common in OZ. especially now at cricket Ashes time. The funny thing is this year for a major change, instead of whinging about the Aussies , weather, and Baggie greens non-stop. They've turned on their 'own' with great volatility 😁 . And a 'Whinging' Non stop about their own Cricket team in the media . ( who are performing poorly so far ) i'm almost hoping they win at Adelaide next week to cheer them up a bit lol. (and keep the series alive for Boxing day)

I don't know about that? . I would say that any PREDICTION for anything , is just an OPINION. until it happened as that it is now in 'past tense'. so therefore becomes a FACT. The Weather Office should have data to accurately predict the weather most days but wow. the inaccuracies are still there in bulk. People complain every day. As they do in horse racing every day too. Not getting the results they predicted. Racing is full of inaccurate Predictions of finishing order, how a race will be run, any number of things really. All just opinion. your Rain example shows the Inaccuracy of A.I in all it's glory. It only has to rain in say 8 of a total of 10 hours of predictions (based on the recorded past data you mentioned) and it's PREDICTION is Immeadiately 10% incorrect. therefore it was just an OPINION of what might happen .and just like any horse race. an inaccurate opinion on any unknown number of occasions.

The algorithms are designed by human at the moment . Fact and Opinion are common are common in daily life. especially on forums lol 😂 even at the start of a Person's day you could say there are facts and opinions in play from the get -go. Say even about the weather (It's not raining currently ) so that's a fact , and opinion might be that it might rain later on. another example is > the traffic is heavy now as people head off to work is a Fact . a slow trip in to the city. but later on it might clear and I'll get into town a lot quicker , is just an opinion though , until it actually happens. totally BASED off previous trends. So A.I will use Past events as FACT , as they have happened already. and coming events as OPINION , with a degree of inaccuracy. The event hasn't happened yet. So a big rate of inaccuracy will always be there, based on the conditions surrounding the event being described. such as selecting a yearling to be a stallion like in this thread ?? . a near impossible Task. we all know this based on previous trends. and like Most things in the amazing Racing field , is just a matter of Opinion . Punting is a great topic for A.I to handle though Chief. You see so many people on forums that have the 'Ideal' strategy in their minds and even shout down others that approach it in a different method. It's quite funny how volatile people get about it actually 😂 Forgetting there are lots of methods. And results are extremely VARIABLE. I copped abuse on Hesi's forum one time, for suggesting weights and barrier draws are part of the variables in your chance of winning a race. Think those blokes need some A.I to help them along a bit 😎🤣 They have a lot of trouble differentiating between Fact and Opinion , just like the A.I . All you can do is go off past trends = (facts) to form future Analysis = (opinion) just like reading the form guide Chief.

Means what it says . the accuracy of the information given by the A.I source was getting near 80% in certain situations. If the algorithms used were suiting the task. Still means a LOT of inaccuracies are involved, but things are improving as time progresses. Is/Will be especially useful where you mentioned above for BOOKMAKER activity. It's a very interesting topic . The A.I use in horse racing. here's the snippet I got that from . accurate unless A.I wrote the article 😉🤣😂 We tested several popular algorithms that are used for classification in AI and also developed our own. No algorithm was perfect; the best ones − even one we developed specifically for this task − achieved an accuracy rate of about 80%,

You guys are correct in that on-line A.I is just a developing technology . Accuracy rates have been deeply scrutinized as they gather more information and the accuracy rate on topic news articles was a rather poor 50% of articles with inaccuracies earlier this year. Of course as time passes , the Algorithms that Chief mentions are developing at a great rate and some that are Topic specific are showing data at 80% accuracy , so improvement is there. just needs more time. something is better than nothing afterall. (just like racing forums actually lol 😁) They'll never have the ability to predict what a yearling might do from a yearling sale though 😂, nor the ability ( or possible ability ) of said animal to be a racing prospect. There are WAY TOO Many variables. be a stallion ? seriously ? You best to win the Coolmore or something as a 2 year old , and then you might just scrape in as a stallion prospect. No art involved. just the human intervention on horses training will help decide it's future course. The only hope with Yearling sales is the trained eye and experience level of the observor/purchaser to get a Good race-horse of the future. and weight of numbers purchased by the one buyer of course. The more purchases by one buyer , the chance of getting a 'Race-horse' double each time. A.I might be of help in the future with selecting notable attributes/accomplishments in a horses pedigree or stuff like that, that you used to just find in the Catelogue fine print . A.I could give more expansive information on any yearling you like at some stage , so All is not bleak. It's a developing field as in all technology. quite amazing really.

BTW . Anyone can enter this quiz 👍 . Not just Ranga as he will push for 'domination' if he gets a roll on.😂 See if you can head him off before he get's the whip cracking, and get some of the answers . 12 Great horses that we are looking for that are the Champions of New Zealand and Australia. clues above.

Leap To Fame was this week crowned The Grand Circuit Champion for the 3rd Straight year. Congratulations to him and connections. Can you Name some of the previous Champions from the Clues given below ?? post Horse number and name below and i'll try and find photo of them as we go. Good Luck !! The Grand Circuit comprises of the 7 Biggest Traditional races on the annual Calender. LEAP To FAME surprisingly Only Won one of the 7 races this year/season . The Interdominion Grand Final in July only . But got plenty of points for 2nds in the Hunter Cup , NZ Cup and Miracle Mile and the Blacks A Fake QLD championship last weekend. as well as a 3rd in the Victoria Cup. He took the points decision comfortably from his twice conqueror this season in DON HUGO ( the current Miracle Mile Champion ) Lets have a Look at the list of Grand Circuit Champions over the last 20 or so years. ( nearly All NZ or QLD horses which delights me no end lol 😎 ) Name these winners from the Clues . name any WINNER from Horse 2 on to Horse 13 and see how you go ?. i've named the others already. Post any answer here please. 👍🏆 Horse 1/ 2025, 2024 , 2023 GC winner = Leap To Fame Horse 2/ 2022, 2021 , 2020 GC winner clue = NZ bred horse of Luke McCarthy . One of only 4 horses to win the GC on 3 occasions. Horse 3/ 2019 GC winner clue = NZ bred horse that reached open class while NZ trained. then won the Interdominion for Australia Horse 4/ 2018, 2017 GC winner clue = This fine horse not only won the GC title twice but took out 2 NZ Cups as well . Horse 5/ 2016 GC winners clue = A dead heat this year between LennyTheShark (Vic) and this NZ trained horse that won the Interdominion for MP . Horse 6/ 2015, 2014 GC winner clue = This double winner of the Grand Circuit from NZ was driven by the 'voted best driver in the world' lad from Canterbury. Horse 7/ 2013 , 2011 GC winner clue = Yet another DOUBLE GC winner , and bred in NZ as well , before becoming one of the All time greats in WA Horse 8/ 2012 GC Winner clue = NZ bred Victorian who rose to stardom , even after having the Interdominion removed from his win list via DQ. Horse 9/ 2010 GC winner clue = Another NZ megastar , who was trained in NZ and smacked the Aussies hard wherever he went. Horse 10/ 2009, 2008 GC winner clue = This Queensland wonderhorse was the best ever QLD runner before Leap To Fame. trainer went to NZ ? 😁 Horse 11/ 2007 GC winner clue = this amazing Tasmanian became a QLDer for just $20,000 then became a NZer too, to raid NZ Cups . Horse 12/ 2006 GC Winner clue = Another Queenslander ! This horse started the McCarthy Family Rise to the TOP . the horse that did it all for John McCarthy. Horse 13/ 2005 GC Winner clue = Kiwi bred owned and trained and his big White face went on to record many victories for the North Island. Horse 14/ 2004 GC Winner = The FALCON Strike NZ bred horse wins big for the Hall's in Western Australia Horse 15/ 2003 GC winners = dead heat between Double Identity (NSW) and Young Rufus NZ , who I think was Mark Purdon's ?? Horse 16/ 2002 GC winner = Smooth Satin (NSW) Horse 17/ 2001 GC Winner = Atitagain (NSW ) NZ bred out of open class mare 'Rain Girl ' of Mitchell's Horse 18/ 2000 GC Winner = D J Holmes for NZ and Mr Barry Purdon the legend himself. Horse 19/ 1999 GC winner = the amazing superstar stallion Christian Cullen from Canterbury tales the title. and Horse 20/ 1998, 1997 double GC Winner = Our Sir Vancelot a NZ bred , triple Interdominion winner for NSW and Brian Hancock. Won't go back further as you won't remember any of them like the triple winner's Gammalite and Westburn Grant. See if you can name ANY of horses 2 through 13 on the list ? Post here any you might work out from the clues given.

probably was the right answer Brodie. the horse undoubtedly had a change of training routine. What else can they say?? . The horse had good drivers before in Orange and that . so the driver wasn't the difference. The horse placed 4th in 1.57 MR last january as it's absolute best run ever. not that quick , but that's way faster than Oamaru win?. and finally YOU Know how respected the HOUSE team are already ?? at taking out of form horses to Manawatu for other owners and trainers , and WINNING too. so it's nothing out of the Blue that they have achieved. Weaver is no -one i've heard of so probably just a country class trainer , where-as HOUSE team can race at Metro city level at times. They are only moderate performers in town . but don't have the 'Secrets' of Allstars, Dunns and Cullen etc 🤣😂 Wilson needed to work elsewhere to learn some tricks of the trade. (like Crystal and Harrison Orange do)

well it doesn't really Brodster. In this case the horse did have a form improvement like you said but nothing serious. times ran was not serious at all. The Mandorian won in a slow 2.5 mile rate with a last half of 58 seconds. slower than most maidens. A recent thread on here I did showed a horse Improving 40m (about 4 seconds ) in a week. But you can still have to guess how the trainer did it. Getting the horse Bold Medley Jujon off a leading trainer in Grant Dixon. Of course JASON GRIMSON was improving old crocks , many times the past few years. Boncel Benjamin and I Cast no Shadow won the Interdominion Grand Final even ?? how ? Well there is No way a Trainer has to TELL anyone ( Even Stewards or Public ) how he trains and treats his horses. There is NO COP OUT by NOT devulging how you Prepare your horses ??👍 No Trainer tells others Exactly what they do or they would lose their edge. I could tell you how Barry Purdon trains, or how Jimmy won the Interdominion with Lightning Blue or how Vinnie Knight won race after race but we just Don't tell mate. these are the secrets that stay with each Stable . even as I travelled from stable to stable I didn't reveal anything from previous establishments as that is a SERIOUS BREAK in Confidential and Personal stuff. unique to each stable. and you would lose the participants respect very quickly indeed. example : Cullen shifting from Allstars to Telfers was never Gunna work , as would be impossible for him to devulge the Allstars secret to Telfer. so they didn't need him and he departed again lol 🤣🤭 What did you want to know ? what The Mandolonian had for breakfast ? and how fast Wilson worked it during the week ?? it didn't do much improving mate really mate . send it to Grimson 's 😁 if you want a fast Win.

While everyone is sinking the boot in on NZ racing forums (is the weather Cold there or something? ) one good thing to remember is this never before achieved achievement by a great stable to Trifecta one of the major races on the Annual Calender. This goes down to All his great staff too. The love and dedication to get these majestic horses over the jumps is a true credit to them . And Te Akau this year . here's an article on it > Te Akau trainer Mark Walker made history at Ballarat on Sunday with an unprecedented trifecta in the A$400,000 Ecycle Solutions Grand National Steeplechase (4500m). Walker saddled Leaderboard (Street Cry) for a 25-length win in the showpiece steeplechase, with The Mighty Spar (NZ) (Savabeel) second and Prismatic (NZ) (Savabeel) third. It capped an enormously special Sunday for Walker and the Te Akau Racing team, who also took three runners to Taupo and came away with three winners – Carsolio, To Bravery Born and In Haste. Former Gr.3 Wellington Cup (3200m) and Listed New Zealand St Leger (2600m) winner Leaderboard settled in second spot on Sunday for jockey Will Gordon before taking command when topweight Stern Idol began to tire. Leaderboard and the favourite Noonday Gun seemed set to fight out a tight battle to the finish, but Noonday Gun fell at the final fence and left Leaderboard to cruise to a runaway win. “I can’t really believe it,” Gordon said. “I went out there without any pressure, just riding my race, riding the horse. Going down the back the last time, I thought, ‘I’ve still got a bit of horse here and might be in the finish.’ “He’s a legend of a horse. Everyone that rides him, or has anything to do with him, just loves and adores him.

Still the same Newmarket . this year 'Larry' had 21 starts for 15 wins and 5 x 2nd placings. Had a Massive Clean sweep of the Interdominion in July. Last year he had the 15 wins and one 2nd from 16 starts. and didn't start in the NSW Interdominion , which was won by Don Hugo . Don Hugo going on to defeat Leap To Fame fair and square in the Miracle Mile this year in very fast time to show his quality , and also beat him last Saturday night in QLD. a very fine race-horse. Leap To Fame did beat him (Don Hugo) in your Big Slot race at Cambridge this year so got one back on him anyway. Leap To Fame is running the same race times still as last year. (very quick ones that break hearts lol 😂 ) and yes you're right with KINGMAN , a stable-mate of Don Hugo , has improved greatly this Spring and Won the Victoria Cup and NZ Cup very well over Leap To Fame. Luke McCarthy is such a good horseman , and is the best in Australia. so that's what it takes to beat 'Larry' and has done it a few times now. Footnote : Luke drove a 25-1 shot (Encipher) to beat Leap To Fame (2nd) just over 2 years ago in Australia's richest race too . The $2,000,000 Eureka . so Luke is proving a bit of a thorn in the side of the champ at times lol 🙄.

John Dunn and Carter Dalgety are hands and heels above the others. They drive with a lot of aggression these days , and like the best Aussie drivers, sure aren't scared to work their horses early , and are often on the move Mid-race to apply pressure up front . Time and time again they pull off a victory with the great proactive driving. yes . sometimes they get caught out and drop away. But when you look what is happening with GOT THE CHOCOLATES and REPUBLICAN PARTY , they have developed in to 2 of the hardest to beat horses in the country , because of being driven boldly , and are winning some BIG ones. Marketplace still doing well though , and we've had discussion before about him getting beat with very cold drives , so is good to see the NZ Derby Winner driven with more 'Gusto' lately , and rightly getting the Big Derby Win .

wow , that's a crazy bet on a 6 start maiden trotter. $5000 ? sanity is gone in NZ for some ? lol. 😉 Best thing to do would be tell them just have $50 on like you and I would, and live without misery 🤣. and just enjoy the racing lol. Must say Nathan Williamson did the same in race 3 as well. took far too long to get HILLARY up and running. She came home well but he gave it NO chance to get there. Nathan is well down on driving form lately. wouldn't touch a thing he drives. 'Hillary' is 8 year old as well. (9 next month) so is running out of time to break maidens ranks ? 😂🤣😁

funny you should say that , as was thinking John Dunn races a lot of trotters . Had the very best in Sundee's Son in recent times. But nearly all of his can fly to piece's any old tick of the clock as well . not just at Addington but grass and country racing too. He has as many gallopers as any other trotting trainer so not sure the Woodend Beach is your complete answer to the problem at all. HOPE's team train there too , and don't have as many gallopers , and are trotting specialists , so there is the chance that Beach training is of some help as you say. Habibti Pat a bit erratic at times , but great Win in the trotting Derby recently. They're quite a fickle beast to train the old trotters.

looks like 3 of the 10 trotters in race 2 galloped going across it soon after the start of R2 . Not a great result . All the drivers looked like they were approaching BECHER'S BROOK Chief . 🤣😂 nervous times for all lol.

Why ? they just had race 1 and nothing happened . ( they all got over it without galloping) It does look like a quick rise and fall as you go across it though. This might not suit the trotters , where balance is important. So maybe you'll see something gallop at it in Race 2 shortly ? Don't know about soft ?? not a great description ? more likely use that for POMMIE Batsmen at the Ashes lol 😂 but the harness horses generally race with their heads up a lot Higher than thoroughbreds Chief. Just so they can keep their pacing or trotting gait at high speed. But they are prone to spotting things out the corner of their eyes accordingly rather annoyingly at times. so > Hence the common use of blinds and shadow rolls and all sorts of head gear to keep them concentrating.

The Galah posted some interesting China articles a little while ago . He might know what they are doing there. As a teen in the early 80's in NZ , I saw quite a few horses exported to MACAU for racing there, as well as the usual plane loads going to Aus and USA. thankfully I flew with some to Aus instead of Macau which would seem like the End of the World I imagine. and would not be about the horse racing enjoyment there. just the money. Macau harness racing folded after a time anyway and became a Big 'CASINO world Hotspot' for the mega-rich Chinese. The horse that improved 40m in this article thread, BOLD MEDLEY JUJON has made his way to NSW now, and thundered to another very easy victory last night. I wonder if he will 'flame-out' shortly though ? .

Luke McCarthy has done it again . fresh off his crushing NZ Cup win with KINGMAN over Leap To Fame , the Master Blaster Luke has beaten LTF again tonight in the Queensland Pacing Championship . DON HUGO the 2024 Interdominion Grand Final winner , has beaten the Champ by a nose in a great race tonight. must of been near a world record for the 3 great horses fighting out the finish well clear by many lengths from the rest of the field. Don Hugo of course defeating Leap To Fame in this years Miracle Mile as well , as did Kingman in the Victoria Cup in October . Luke has mastered the great horse and beats him nearly every time now? 🙄 . You can't just keep death seating and expect to Win all the time. Some great news for you hardy BOAY yokels is that the 3rd horse tonight , just a head behind them running 3rd , is THE JANITOR . a beautiful horse who Pete McMullen has said is now ear-marked for New Zealand next year to bring a NZ CUP to Queensland , when he takes GUS back next November to defend his Dominion / NZ trotting FFA crowns. will be quite a moment for Queensland. can't see Got the Chocolates even getting near these QLD absolute beast horses 😋

exactly . The Entain company (operating as Ladbrokes in Queensland ) allocates so much funding per year that is divvied-Up between the racing and harness codes at a rate that is compatable with the stakemoney being offered for the races. The Computer systems sort the funding and annual allocation in a way , to have the Best horses racing and some good feature racing as well as any lower class racing that needs the funding. this happens with other companies input as well . such as Garrards Horse and Hound that pour a significant amount of their annual profits back into all 3 codes , to sponsor bucketloads of races in both NZ and Aus. Unfortunately those like Brodie here , that forever accuse the powers that run the show of incompetent Business management ( when the racing has Never been better nor Raced for such great prizes in history) when it is all done on Computer that is smarter than them/him . just a doomsayer approach all the time instead of enjoying the racing.

excellent advice Chief. It's gotta be for the love of horses for sure, and not 'Win some money' interest. But there's still some that do , and would love to race a horse. Well that's what it all amounts to in the end really . My best mate bought into a thoroughbred Filly yearling with a big time Victorian syndicator. His first horse. About 6 years ago. Wanted a 20th share because at that marker you get your name in the Racebook. (up to 20 names as listed owners) . I imagine that would be the same in NZ. His horse got to start as a 2 year old as well . 17 starts for 3 wins in the end of 4 year old racing career, including a Flemington and MV win and a Group 3 3rd placing at Caulfield. Initial buy-in was $3,500 for the 20th share. and with on going fees and whatnot the prizemoney was come and gone and it was a break even venture. she was Sold off at the broodMares sale they have every year GC for 200k odd . (same where Melody Belle went ) After all the sale fees and cuts for managers/trainers and that , was just a 'break even' venture. Even though horse seemed above average. so all in all , only made money off punting it he reckoned, and feels had No say whatsoever on Where it ran , and things like that , even after writing to the Syndicator. so was put off with the minor conflicts, and is not going to race another one at any stage now.Too much of a just a lack of control with your money. might as well just have a punt. Felt he had as Much ownership as 'Just a Punt every time it starts' as you suggested . (and a ticket to the birdcage photo if it won lol.) + 3 race-win photo's on his office wall. I raced Pacers straight out ownership in the 90's ,(or had some in half shares) so could pick drivers , where they started etc. especially enjoyed prepping them myself , as ended up getting 3 mates their race driving licenses in the end , to have a bit of fun in some country races , with the slow horses. was great to have your sport as hobby work. The 'Baker' mate won a few and was pretty good. cooked a few though as well 🤣 . My best man (a 'welder') was ok and helped a lot with the training , more so than race driving , where he would stick to the fence a lot 🤣 . The 'Carpenter' was a dead loss. he Put the hammer down in the races far too early most of the time 😂 and was always nailed in the home straight lol. Don't think he ever won a race actually.

Pretty slick Green Mile . 1.55 and a bit. Gerard should give Mick Boots a ring as he will smiling after some more Big recent wins , and loves buying the NZ horses . could get $250k for her ? Esmeralda could be the TOP mare in Australasia in the right hands . and win all the Big Mares races through 2026. worth near a million dollars of races. Pushing for Auckland Cup now, and that against the boys a big ask for a 16 start horse. probably not the best idea as could flatten her a bit