curious

You obviously not only need to go back and pass primary school maths, but primary school reading as well. See if you can find some sort of remedial assistance What does that say? I'll try this one more time even though half of it is off topic and you have brought it in to distract from the stupidity of your still unproven statement about HK punters. I DO NOT support horses racing with ANY prohibited substance in their system. I DO support internationally accepted withdrawal times for those. I DO support the Australian rule of no medication for one clear day prior to racing and think we should have the same here. I DO support the current Racing Integrity Act bill under way in the US which proposes a 24 hour prior to racetime ban on all medication I DO support the use of medication including furosemide for training purposes. I was an active supporter of the campaign in the US to prohibit the legal use of phenylbutazone on race day. I am also party to a current submission supporting the US Racing Integrity Act bill. That said, given its half life of about six hours, 24 hours for Bute is ok if it must be, though I'd prefer it and other NSAID use were subject to accepted international withdrawal times, such as those of the FEI. Is that clear?

I don't have a problem with that and I support the 'one clear day' rule for all medication. However, I think trainers, under veterinary advice, should be able to use medication (including Lasix) at their discretion for training purposes subject to withdrawal times of course.

Where did I say I liked racing with drugs? You made that up. We are talking about training with a particular drug here in case you've forgotten and gone off on a tangent after making a stupid comment about HK punters for which you have provided no evidence when asked.

Only for raceday isn't it? Not for their use in training which is what we are talking about here.

So Thommo, if Lasix is banned for use in racehorses in training and Waller then uses nasal strips instead, I suppose you'd expect that to be reported to punters as well?

Yes, it's progressive. That's the point. If you reduce the magnitude of the bleed (using Lasix) then you obviously slow the progression and prolong the usefulness of the horse. Chris Waller knows this but Thommo is too thick to understand. I imagine punters would also approve of that idea.

Yeahh, and what about standardbreds, polo ponies, eventers, show jumpers, barrel horses etc? That's going to be a hell of a lot of horses not breeding along with a few human athletes, quite a few greyhounds and maybe a few camels. And I don't think many of those have much Northern Dancer blood.

I think you'll find that the bill proposes a 24 hour ban (on all medication) prior to racing, similar to Australasia. The question of whether that should be applied to Lasix is still being debated I think.

Each code entirely separately makes its own rules including penalties in accord with the Racing Act. The RIU and JCA are then responsible for enforcing those. 29 Racing rules (1) Every racing code must make, and maintain in force, rules regulating the conduct of racing by that code. (2) Without limiting subsection (1), any racing rules of a racing code may provide for— (a) the appointment, functions, and duties of stipendiary stewards and racecourse inspectors; and (b) the licensing of trainers, jockeys, drivers, and apprentices, and related matters; and (c) the registration of horses, greyhounds, owners, partnerships, syndicates, and colours; and (d) the conduct and control of race meetings, including safety requirements; and (e) prize money and other stakes, programmes, entries, withdrawals, weights, penalties, handicapping, allowances, weighing, starting, and running; and (f) punishments for breaches of the rules; and (g) determinations and appeals; and (h) disqualifications and suspensions; and (i) any other matters relating to the conduct of races and racing that the racing code thinks fit.

Bloody hell. I was hoping you guys wouldn't discover that. I'm going to be in the poor house for a few weeks until I find another edge. I'm working on a theory about Lasix first time in the US which looks promising though. At this stage it appears to only work at certain tracks however, which complicates matters.

No. The analogy is that if I notice a problem AFTER I've completed the transaction and taken delivery of the car, it's a bit late. If I then contact the vendor and ask about it and they tell me it's been checked out and was ok 3 months ago because it got a warrant, then it's incumbent on me to decide whether I get it further checked out or drive it for 3 months and it either falls off or fails its next warrant. By then, I wouldn't consider I had any recourse or right to cancel the sale. As I said, I don't exactly know what was said but we only have one side of that story. From my experience of online horse auctions, vendors sometimes post vet reports, especially where there is a noted problem, say a tendon injury, or x-rays, scopes etc. I'd still get a second opinion BEFORE the purchase if in relation to a known issue. I'd also have at least been asking if there were any vet exams or reports that might be relevant to the purchase and asking for them beforehand.

Jess, I don't know the detail of exactly what happened, or who said what to whom, but if I put myself in the position of either party, it's hard to see that the vendor is responsible here, partly for the reasons Arsenic states. If the vendor sold the horse in the belief that it was sound and could continue racing, then it is surely incumbent on the buyer to ascertain for themselves that is the case. It seems the vendor had no evidence to the contrary other than the possibly the presence of some observable issue. The purchaser who it appears naively bought the horse without any pre-purchase inspection or clinical exam, noticed an issue upon receiving the horse but still put it into work without further investigation other than asking the agent about it. When the area of concern did turn out to be an issue months later, hardly seems reason that the sale should be cancelled, especially if the terms of sale are clear and similar to the gavelhouse ones I posted above. I just bought a cheap <$3000 car on trademe that is located about an hours drive from here. I didn't go and inspect it myself but did pay for a pre-purchase exam from a professional. That highlighted a problem which it turned out the vendor might have known about. The vendor also didn't know that any vehicle sale requires that the car have a warrant less than one month old. It had a current warrant. Once she realised that and that I was aware of the problem she said it probably wouldn't get a warrant. A brief korero and the problem is being repaired and the warrant obtained and we will proceed with the purchase. If I had gone to get a new warrant in 3 months time and the car failed on this basis, I don't think I would have had any reason to complain or any comeback. Even the chance to provide negative Trademe feedback would be long gone. If I'd noticed the problem when I got the car and rung up and asked about it and she said it got a warrant 3 months ago. What could I say? You need to check things out BEFORE the transaction when they can either be remedied or you make an informed and negotiated decision with the vendor. JMHO

Maybe, but in this case I'm not convinced.

The opposite may be true. They haven't left in the US where most horses train and race on Lasix. There is some indication that punters prefer it as it reduces an unpredictable variable.

You can't learn can you which is why you obviously still need to pass primary school maths. How many in blinkers ran last? How many didn't win? How many winners had bridles on? How many won with lugging bits? It's meaningless. You don't seem to understand or be able to that this is you once again applying a population statistic to individual chance.

While I accept the above points Freda, I think the onus is usually on the buyer in these situations. It would obviously depend on the specific Ts&Cs of the vendor's agent under which the horse was purchased. The below is from the T&Cs of gavelhouse for example, which would leave the purchaser out in the cold I think in the situation that you describe. Of course, as has been suggested, it may be that a korero can bring about a happier outcome, especially if the Vendor intentionally misrepresented the situation and if they and the agent are interested in acting in good faith and preserving goodwill and reputations. 7.9 Fitness for Purpose You as a Buyer acknowledge, subject only to the limited warranties expressed in these Terms and Conditions: (a) The purchase is made solely in reliance upon Your own: (i) enquiries and inspection; and (ii) skill and judgement. (b) That no guarantee, representation or warranty of any kind is made or given as to the fitness for purpose, soundness, condition or other quality of any Lot sold, either by: (i) the Seller or (ii) by Us and, (iii) all implied conditions, warranties, guarantees, rights or remedies statutory or otherwise, including, but not limited to, any warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose are hereby excluded to the maximun extent permitted by law. (c) It is Your responsibility as a prospective Buyer to arrange for any veterinary inspection or inquiry that You may require and You assume all consequences and risk from failure to do so. (d) You have not relied on any statement made by or on behalf of the Seller or by Us in relation to any Lot.

http://www.bafnz.com/2015-Code-of-Ethics-for-BAFNZ.pdf

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-ab&amp;site=async/torspo&amp;q=Linn+Grant&amp;stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgVuLVT9c3NEwziDdIyS7KmcDCCADmTekMFAAAAA

After all this, now you say you don't actually pay any attention to them? I give up.

Stuff the HKJC. They don't have a clue. I will say that Lasix probably played a big part in saving my life last year.

Keep rooting but I think you've got the wrong Lee. Do you have the updated penos for Royal Lytham?

Let's hope you get the quaddie Hesi. I'd be sitting on it too. I'd agree that whether it results in anything useful being implemented in the near term or not is a different question, though I suspect it will probably kill the Racing Amendment Act in its current form pretty quickly.

Thommo should be able to give you a heads up on the food and some recommendations, but not until after dinner.

I just got this which should help. BNZ Crusaders team to play the Emirates Lions: Penetrometer readings of the stadium will be released at 7 a.m. and updated at 4 p.m. on Saturday. Every metre across the track at both goal lines, half way, and both 25s 1. Joe Moody Trained on Lasix Wednesday, Ibuprofen Thursday. 2. Codie Taylor change of tactics, will also go forward with Havili on the faster northern touch line so he can keep up and be ready for the cross kick from the winger on the other side in the slow going where they were watering the roses. 3. Owen Franks change of boots 4. Scott Barrett usual headgear 5. Sam Whitelock (C) Note that the tight five ran 4kms on New Brighton Beach on Tuesday, with high altitude masks on. No time taken but they finished together. 6. Heiden Bedwell-Curtis 7. Matt Todd (VC) – Received leadership coaching mid week 8. Kieran Read changed sprigs 9. Bryn Hall change of tactics – will feed the blind side more 10. Richie Mo'unga – 10mm increase in kicking tee height. 11. George Bridge 12. Ryan Crotty (VC) Banged heads with 10 different players on Wednesday with no problems noted. 13. Jack Goodhue 14. Seta Tamanivalu 70m sprint time 1 second faster than last week on both Tuesday and Thursday gallops – course proper. 15. David Havili Change of tactics – if possible will go forward down the fast strip on the northern touchline with Codie. RESERVES 16. Sam Anderson-Heather Trained on pain killers all week. 17. Tim Perry hamstring bandage added 18. Michael Alaalatoa 2cm increase in biceps 19. Luke Romano new headgear 20. Pete Samu Headgear off 21. Mitchell Drummond 22. Mitchell Hunt change of tactics – not likely to be brought on unless there is an injury or a last minute drop goal is required. 23. Braydon Ennor

Outstanding effort. Did they both have blinkers on?