Noodlum Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) I think you are all being a bit hard here. The interference was such that a driver was dislodged and on the ground at one stage. The horse following had nowhere to go and the driver of that horse had the presence of mind to grab the head of the horse with the still incapacitated driver. Arguably if he had continued to drive past that horse we would have seen either a driver being dragged or a loose horse. In my opinion it is fair to late scratch them. Generally if a runner comes to the aid of another runner they late scratch them. Edited October 17, 2020 by Noodlum 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Brodie said: The horses were clearly checked after the race started! I was under the impression that means that the horses had a fair start, clearly I was under the wrong impression? This now sets a precedent ! I just looked at this replay Brodie. Yes, it happened just after the start but they had only gone a couple of strides. Sorry, but this is down to Lamb again. Why can't this wanker get the starts right? Look at the replay, the horses are not lined up properly as usual. The front five or six are bunched close together, Aaron Chief was on an angle, while there is a 3-4m gap to the other front liners out wider. Second row horses also not standing straight or on the tape. It was obvious that Aaron Chief was not ready, even Stevie Wonder could see that, but Lamb said "right". We seldom saw incidents like this when Jack Mulcay was the starter, now they are commonplace. The reason is Lamb. He has been in the job for years but has learnt zero and his starts are still a shambles. Sack him.😡 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Noodlum said: I think you are all being a bit hard here. The interference was such that a driver was dislodged and on the ground at one stage. The horse following had nowhere to go and the driver of that horse had the presence of mind to grab the head of the horse with the still incapacitated driver. Arguably if he had continued to drive past that horse we would have seen either a driver being dragged or a loose horse. In my opinion it is fair to late scratch them. Generally if a runner comes to the aid of another runner they late scratch them. I haven't got too much of a problem with the late scratching. As you say the driver that grabbed the head of Prince Tuiteka saved a dangerous situation. The late scratching should have been Lamb, sack him. Edited October 17, 2020 by Davis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Noodlum said: The interference was such that a driver was dislodged and on the ground at one stage. But it is after the race has started. 1 hour ago, Noodlum said: The horse following had nowhere to go and the driver of that horse had the presence of mind to grab the head of the horse with the still incapacitated driver. I don't agree. The race had well and truly started and Navara was on the journey. He elected to stop and grab the horse which is admirable but not really his job. If Navara is a valid scratching then Sundon's Flyer (as Galah points out) is definitely a scratching too. The precedent is set. You can be scratched after Lambs says 'Riiiiightt....' 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 So what has changed since Race 4 at Oamaru in November 2019? The inconsistency is glaring as last night the race had started and then the 'racing incidents' occurred. Authorisation of dividends was withheld until Stewards viewed the films to ensure that all runners were given a fair start. All matters were deemed to be racing incidents as they had occurred after the tapes had been released with all placings being duly authorised. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Seriously, we nave an outfit that they call the Racing Integrity Unit! We have this outfit that is meant to help racing and not hinder it, bjt really they are quite hopeless and the employees get paid for doing a shite job. Yes the horses got hampered just after the start, but the race had started! They have stuffed up again and quite frankly several of them need to be sacked for continued incompetence. Operation Inca, is costing the industry and participants millions and for what? Hopefully the new CEO has got some balls and can have a decent cleanout of the non performing participants! The late scratchings was not correct in terms of the rules and also wouldve affected the dividends and fixed odds payouts! If a horse gets checked during the running then why are they not late scratchings on the basis that they didnt get a fair chance to run? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodlum Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Happy Sunrise said: So what has changed since Race 4 at Oamaru in November 2019? The inconsistency is glaring as last night the race had started and then the 'racing incidents' occurred. Authorisation of dividends was withheld until Stewards viewed the films to ensure that all runners were given a fair start. All matters were deemed to be racing incidents as they had occurred after the tapes had been released with all placings being duly authorised. Any drivers end up on the track? I think you are not comparing apples with apples and you had to go back a year to do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 You think this is bad! Check this out: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 55 minutes ago, Brodie said: Seriously, we nave an outfit that they call the Racing Integrity Unit! We have this outfit that is meant to help racing and not hinder it, bjt really they are quite hopeless and the employees get paid for doing a shite job. Yes the horses got hampered just after the start, but the race had started! They have stuffed up again and quite frankly several of them need to be sacked for continued incompetence. Operation Inca, is costing the industry and participants millions and for what? Hopefully the new CEO has got some balls and can have a decent cleanout of the non performing participants! The late scratchings was not correct in terms of the rules and also wouldve affected the dividends and fixed odds payouts! If a horse gets checked during the running then why are they not late scratchings on the basis that they didnt get a fair chance to run? There needs to be quite a few changes Brodie. Lamb is one that needs to change or be sacked. He is one of the reasons I do not bet on harness as much these days. You never know what is going to happen at the start when he is starter. He's a shocker. He has even stuffed up NZ harness racing greatest race the NZ Cup more than once. I know the drunks at the Met on Cup day couldn't care about the start; they wouldn't even know who the starter was or what he does. But true harness fans like me, and you Brodie, have had enough. Addington is the Southern Hemisphere's premier harness racing track yet we have an absolute idiot starting races there. The excellent track is maintained by professionals who do their jobs. We have some of the best trainers and drivers, Purdon/Rasmussen, Dunn, Dalgety/Purdon, Ken Barron, Paul Nairn and the O'Reilly family to name a few. Blair Orange, Ricky May, the Tomlinson sisters etc, all of these people do their jobs and do them well. Lamb does not and yet he is a stipe and continues to stuff up at least one start at every meeting he officiates at. When will something be done...? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Davis said: There needs to be quite a few changes Brodie. Lamb is one that needs to change or be sacked. He is one of the reasons I do not bet on harness as much these days. You never know what is going to happen at the start when he is starter. He's a shocker. He has even stuffed up NZ harness racing greatest race the NZ Cup more than once. I know the drunks at the Met on Cup day couldn't care about the start; they wouldn't even know who the starter was or what he does. But true harness fans like me, and you Brodie, have had enough. Addington is the Southern Hemisphere's premier harness racing track yet we have an absolute idiot starting races there. The excellent track is maintained by professionals who do their jobs. We have some of the best trainers and drivers, Purdon/Rasmussen, Dunn, Dalgety/Purdon, Ken Barron, Paul Nairn and the O'Reilly family to name a few. Blair Orange, Ricky May, the Tomlinson sisters etc, all of these people do their jobs and do them well. Lamb does not and yet he is a stipe and continues to stuff up at least one start at every meeting he officiates at. When will something be done...? Have you watched the replay? The last few seconds before the start are not on the HRNZ website,but you can see them on the NSW tab website. The horse arran chief is very slightly on an angle facing in,then prince teka moves around(like it normally does) and is on a slight angle facing out,dances on the spot, still room for both horses if they go forward,lamb calls out "we"re happy, right. The contact happens just after the start,not before. You could say the slight angle the horses were standing on pre start was a contributing cause of the subsequent contact,but if you expect starters to wait until every horse is standing completely straight pre start then you are going to get a heap of race starts throughout nz delayed. Actually if you want to watch replays of nz harness racing,the ausralian tab website has them on much quicker than the hrnz website.I think its about time our nz tab has videos of race results just after completion, just like the australian tab's. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Noodlum said: Any drivers end up on the track? That has nothing to do with it. Just because a driver is on the track does not mean the race stops. What do you think of Sundon's Flyer being deemed a starter when it was affected? 1 hour ago, Noodlum said: I think you are not comparing apples with apples and you had to go back a year to do it! Umm the rule is once the race is started they are all deemed runners. You are making up the rules as you see fit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 41 minutes ago, Davis said: Lamb is one that needs to change or be sacked. In this case it is not him at fault. It is the stipes and JCA for applying the rules inaccurately. Noodlum may think I am not comparing apples with apples but a race start is a race start. The rule makers just went against their own application of the rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodlum Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: That has nothing to do with it. Just because a driver is on the track does not mean the race stops. I didn't say "the race stops"! I thought we were talking about late scratchings? YOU had to go back a year to find a race to support your case! FFS! 11 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: Umm the rule is once the race is started they are all deemed runners. You are making up the rules as you see fit. I haven't made up any rules as I see fit. What you are saying is that the Stipes HAVE! FFS get your own argument sorted! Come post us where in the rules it says they couldn't have been late scratched? Edited October 17, 2020 by Noodlum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Noodlum said: YOU had to go back a year to find a race to support your case! FFS! Tell me why you think they should be late scratchings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodlum Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: Tell me why you think they should be late scratchings? I already have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Noodlum said: YOU had to go back a year to find a race to support your case! FFS! Have the rules changed since less than a year ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodlum Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Technically the starter could have called a Recall as a Starters Assistant impeded Navara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodlum Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Happy Sunrise said: Have the rules changed since less than a year ago? WHAT RULES? SHOW ME THE RULES? Are you saying that the driver that grabbed the horse in front of it should have just blasted on past? He chose not to and distinguished his horses chances. He did it for safety reasons. Were the punters that bet on that horse hard done by? YES. I think it was a fair decision. Your race example bears no comparison! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodlum Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 As far as I know there is NOTHING in the rules of harness racing that say the Stipes COULDN'T declare them late scratchings. Just as there is NOTHING in the rules that state under what circumstances you CAN declare them a late scratching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodlum Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) In actual fact the rule used was Rule 213 (1) (j) - Denied a fair start. (j) if a horse was denied a fair start and such occurrence materially prejudiced the chances of that horse. Edited October 17, 2020 by Noodlum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Noodlum said: The interference was such that a driver was dislodged and on the ground at one stage. The horse following had nowhere to go and the driver of that horse had the presence of mind to grab the head of the horse with the still incapacitated driver. Arguably if he had continued to drive past that horse we would have seen either a driver being dragged or a loose horse. In my opinion it is fair to late scratch them. Generally if a runner comes to the aid of another runner they late scratch them. Prove your assertion that if a runner comes to the aid of another they late scratch the horse? The stipes should have called off the race and had a restart if they were concerned. Did you read the stipes report from Oamaru? The race was started so it should have been deemed a racing incident. What do you think about Sundon's Flyer being interfered with? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Just now, Noodlum said: In actual fact the rule used was Rule 213 (1) (j) - Denied a fair start. But the stipes should have deemed it a racing incident as the race had started. Navara started the race and was then interfered with. Can you not understand that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodlum Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: Prove your assertion that if a runner comes to the aid of another they late scratch the horse? You prove otherwise. You are the one contending that it was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodlum Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: The stipes should have called off the race and had a restart if they were concerned. NO only the Starter can do that - its called a Recall. Where in the rules does it say the Stipes can call the race off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Noodlum said: Technically the starter could have called a Recall as a Starters Assistant impeded Navara. What are you watching? The starter had wasn't even on the scene before Navara's driver took hold of Prince Teka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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