Are there signs of cracks in the Cambridge AWT training ranks?

[Tesio]

Any updates from trainers on here how the AWT is going now it’s been in use for a couple months?

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Tesio said:

Any updates from trainers on here how the AWT is going now it’s been in use for a couple months?

Here is a really impartial view from NZTR

https://loveracing.nz/News/32622/Raceformcolumn.aspx

Looks like the trainers absolutely love it and have been waiting to get the best out of it when it rains, sounds like its going to be a super asset for the industry!

[nomates]

So we have reached the starting point for A/W racing in NZ , nom's are out for Cambridge next Wednesday and they are good , so that is our starting point , will be interesting to see how numbers stack up every fortnight as the season proceeds . Along with feedback on the surface .

But , there is always a but , owners and trainers are supporting the meeting , but NZTR as usual showing no reciprocation , could well split 3 of the mdns but are only going to split 1 . 

As usual only one side of the racing equation in NZ is standing up , only to be chopped off at the knees again by lily livered , gutless leadership .

Support your F@#king owners you wimps , tell them if numbers support it split the other races .

[mikeynz]

Starting limits of 12 and I think 10 in some races,interesting to see if extra races will be run ,if they all want a race might need lights to get all races done in time.

[nomates]

29 minutes ago, mikeynz said:

Starting limits of 12 and I think 10 in some races,interesting to see if extra races will be run ,if they all want a race might need lights to get all races done in time.

And there is the rub , it's was bad enough for owners when they thought going in most cases to 14 horse limits , but now with the introduction of the greyhound tracks the starting limits get smaller , sweet then put on extra races for the owners that want to run .

The other interesting thing about the limits is that it limits betting , it's always been accepted that the more runners in a race the bigger the turnover on each race . 

But yea i can see it , the A/W's are going to be the saviours of NZ racing .

But to some i'm just a naysayer .

[Huey]

2 minutes ago, nomates said:

And there is the rub , it's was bad enough for owners when they thought going in most cases to 14 horse limits , but now with the introduction of the greyhound tracks the starting limits get smaller , sweet then put on extra races for the owners that want to run .

The other interesting thing about the limits is that it limits betting , it's always been accepted that the more runners in a race the bigger the turnover on each race . 

But yea i can see it , the A/W's are going to be the saviours of NZ racing .

But to some i'm just a naysayer .

Putting on extra races shouldn't be an issue as the betting turnover should comfortably make them financially viable, if not then aren't we just in the same place we have always been?

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

Putting on extra races shouldn't be an issue as the betting turnover should comfortably make them financially viable, if not then aren't we just in the same place we have always been?

Exactly , not just on the A/W's either , if you were making profit on races then surely you would put on as many races as possible , horse numbers allowing . They are trying to manage horses into the following weeks races so they don't come up short , not their job , work with what is in front of them there and now , they are not nearly as smart as they think they are .

[Freda]

13 hours ago, Huey said:

Putting on extra races shouldn't be an issue as the betting turnover should comfortably make them financially viable, if not then aren't we just in the same place we have always been?

In the last decade - or more - turnovers have not made any race a revenue-positive area, is my understanding.  The lesser-staked meetings just lose less, that's all.

Which is [ one reason ] why the wail about abandoned meetings costing millions is a crock.  No stakes to pay out, no ancillary costs either, only costs are on the beleaguered stakeholders who in many cases have outlaid money for transport, staff wages, etc, for the raceday.

So yes, novelty aside, I would think we would be in the same place as before wrt revenue.  There seems to be little evidence statistically to indicate that betting will be worse, despite many comments about punters hating allweathers.   Obviously, some do, but equally, others may  not.   After all, people bet on greyhounds, which I find an utter bore-fest - even though I love dogs, and have a rehomed greyhound.    Can't see that there will be any significant change in punting behaviour really, although I'm no statistical expert.

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

In the last decade - or more - turnovers have not made any race a revenue-positive area, is my understanding.  The lesser-staked meetings just lose less, that's all.

Which is [ one reason ] why the wail about abandoned meetings costing millions is a crock.  No stakes to pay out, no ancillary costs either, only costs are on the beleaguered stakeholders who in many cases have outlaid money for transport, staff wages, etc, for the raceday.

So yes, novelty aside, I would think we would be in the same place as before wrt revenue.  There seems to be little evidence statistically to indicate that betting will be worse, despite many comments about punters hating allweathers.   Obviously, some do, but equally, others may  not.   After all, people bet on greyhounds, which I find an utter bore-fest - even though I love dogs, and have a rehomed greyhound.    Can't see that there will be any significant change in punting behaviour really, although I'm no statistical expert.

Of course we wont get to see betting figures unless they are startling good, but if they are not or are about the same I still don't get the whole point of the AWTs?

I thought they were sold on producing a better betting product and giving more opportunities to more horses? and as you've pointed out being the cover for abandoned meetings.

One would expect like the trainers, punters will need some time to acclimatise to the new surface.

The feedback I've heard from riders on the AWT has been very positive, so here is hoping the entire venture works out for the industry.

[Chief Stipe]

34 minutes ago, Huey said:

Of course we wont get to see betting figures unless they are startling good, but if they are not or are about the same I still don't get the whole point of the AWTs?

Don't forget that there will need to be a lot more revenue generated by the AWT'S to cover ongoing maintenance costs  They are a higher cost model of operation than the local turf course on which racing is held sporadically.

So not only extra revenue to maintain themselves but even more revenue to renovate the Turf Tracks at the Premier locations.

NZ Thoroughbred Racing has thrown all its chips on the success of these high cost AWT'S.  In my opinion a high risk strategy especially when you are permanently closing down perfectly good tracks so you can rape and pillage their capital.

[Pitman]

55 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Don't forget that there will need to be a lot more revenue generated by the AWT'S to cover ongoing maintenance costs  They are a higher cost model of operation than the local turf course on which racing is held sporadically.

So not only extra revenue to maintain themselves but even more revenue to renovate the Turf Tracks at the Premier locations.

NZ Thoroughbred Racing has thrown all its chips on the success of these high cost AWT'S.  In my opinion a high risk strategy especially when you are permanently closing down perfectly good tracks so you can rape and pillage their capital.

mr negativity doing what he does best

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, Pitman said:

mr negativity doing what he does best

Yep doing my best to influence opinion, get answers and action on the big problems that still face NZ Racing.  Why?  Because I still have some passion for the industry.

Meanwhile those that can actually get some action are busily working in their own self interest banging the tambourines and blithely turning a blind eye away from the big picture.

I've seen the tambourine marketing bullshit for decades now and nothing has changed.

WHERE IS THE BUSINESS CASE FOR THE AWT?

WHEN WILL THE RICCARTON TURF TRACK BE RENOVATED?

PS:  I noticed last week that the grass leading up to the Steeplechase hedges hasn't grown yet.  Bugger when you let it die for lack of irrigation. 

[Pitman]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yep doing my best to influence opinion, get answers and action on the big problems that still face NZ Racing.  Why?  Because I still have some passion for the industry.

Meanwhile those that can actually get some action are busily working in their own self interest banging the tambourines and blithely turning a blind eye away from the big picture.

100% CORRECT THANK YOU

I've seen the tambourine marketing bullshit for decades now and nothing has changed.

WHERE IS THE BUSINESS CASE FOR THE AWT?

ASK TIM MILLS

WHEN WILL THE RICCARTON TURF TRACK BE RENOVATED?

ASK ALAN CHAPMAN

PS:  I noticed last week that the grass leading up to the Steeplechase hedges hasn't grown yet.  Bugger when you let it die for lack of irrigation. 

You’ve missed the bus

You're too late

Its all happening, how do you sleep at night worrying?

The Riccarton AWT you said wouldn’t happen is about to burst in to reality

For delusional dreamers like me it’s going to be fantastic

FYI that’s brown top grass on the steeplechase track it goes dormant in the winter looks like that every year and with some recent rain and a couple of decent dews it is now starting to grow and “green up” like it does every year

GOOGLE UP HORLICKS Japan Cup win you’ll see what I mean 

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, Pitman said:

You’ve missed the bus

You're too late

Its all happening, how do you sleep at night worrying?

The Riccarton AWT you said wouldn’t happen is about to burst in to reality

For delusional dreamers like me it’s going to be fantastic

FYI that’s brown top grass on the steeplechase track it goes dormant in the winter looks like that every year and with some recent rain and a couple of decent dews it is now starting to grow and “green up” like it does every year

GOOGLE UP HORLICKS Japan Cup win you’ll see what I mean 

WHERE IS THE BUSINESS CASE?

WHEN WILL THE RICCARTON TURF TRACK BE COMPLETELY RENOVATED?

[nomates]

Now B Popplewell reinforcing the bullshit agenda , ends the day saying we can look forward to Wednesday and the first raceday on an A/W in NZ and that they have carded enormous fields , really , wasn't it enormous nom's but only 12 horse fields carded , in fact the stayers race has only 10 runners . 

God knows what the limits will be at Awapuni , maybe greyhound sized fields .

[Chief Stipe]

What's the point of having 6 balloted out horses?  Are they expecting scratchings if there is a change in track conditions?

What impact does that have on Fixed Odds?

[Huey]

8 minutes ago, nomates said:

Now B Popplewell reinforcing the bullshit agenda , ends the day saying we can look forward to Wednesday and the first raceday on an A/W in NZ and that they have carded enormous fields , really , wasn't it enormous nom's but only 12 horse fields carded , in fact the stayers race has only 10 runners . 

God knows what the limits will be at Awapuni , maybe greyhound sized fields .

I wouldn't be surprised if they got rid of the turf at Awapuni in favour of the AWT, nothing surprises in this industry anymore.

[nomates]

I see they are giving a reading for the track on Wednesday , 6.2 yesterday , showery today and a 7.32 reading . Be nice if they let us know exactly where these readings sit in relation to normal grass track readings . Obviously the wetter the higher the reading but does 7.32 mean dead 4 , 5 or 6 or is it still in the good range , if anybody knows give us the heads up please .

[Chief Stipe]

23 minutes ago, nomates said:

I see they are giving a reading for the track on Wednesday , 6.2 yesterday , showery today and a 7.32 reading . Be nice if they let us know exactly where these readings sit in relation to normal grass track readings . Obviously the wetter the higher the reading but does 7.32 mean dead 4 , 5 or 6 or is it still in the good range , if anybody knows give us the heads up please .

At least they are giving a reading.  Why they haven't been doing it during the trials is anyone's guess.  That would have given some Benchmark.

[Bid]

49 minutes ago, nomates said:

I see they are giving a reading for the track on Wednesday , 6.2 yesterday , showery today and a 7.32 reading . Be nice if they let us know exactly where these readings sit in relation to normal grass track readings . Obviously the wetter the higher the reading but does 7.32 mean dead 4 , 5 or 6 or is it still in the good range , if anybody knows give us the heads up please .

I think what your looking at is the time of last update and not a reading. You'll see 'am' below it.  

[nomates]

19 minutes ago, Bid said:

I think what your looking at is the time of last update and not a reading. You'll see 'am' below it.  

Ha ok didn't see that , got a bit enthusiastic thinking they were getting pro active , should have known better . So i do wonder what the point is at keeping telling us that the track is synthetic with a given time , are they expecting it to change into another surface ? and if it does will they provide the given time it occured ? 

[nomates]

I have seen that they have run trials on it when it has been " slow " , are they going to give an indication of what level of slow or dead or heavy , does it get heavy ? , as they do with the grass surfaces  i.e. slow 6,7,8 . Or is it mearly going to be good , dead , slow or heavy , as ever when it comes to track readings they do like to keep punters in the dark .

[Gospel of Judas]

On 15/05/2021 at 4:49 PM, Chief Stipe said:

What's the point of having 6 balloted out horses?  Are they expecting scratchings if there is a change in track conditions?

What impact does that have on Fixed Odds?

You think run extra race or two. That be smart option, but don't seem to do those things currently. Could make some more turnover or money? . Suppose don't even know what that is!

[nomates]

17 minutes ago, Gospel of Judas said:

You think run extra race or two. That be smart option, but don't seem to do those things currently. Could make some more turnover or money? . Suppose don't even know what that is!

Well there was enough nom's to run 2 extra races . Go figure .

[mikeynz]

Some of t

18 hours ago, nomates said:

Well there was enough nom's to run 2 extra races . Go figure .

Some of the rethoric being spoken about Cambridge having good size fields seems a little bit over the top to me,lots of entrants ,yes, but a third of the entrants won't get a start,seems like bullshit to me,