Yes Auckland is knackered!

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

Not ideal but don't see how it is justifiable or sustainable for the overall good of NZ harness racing.

Why not?  If you are correct then it does not bode well for Harness Racing in general if the only Harness Racing Track directly accessible to 1.5m people is "justifiable or sustainable".

Profit on Racing Activity last year and paid out more Stakes than funding received from HRNZ.

[Chief Stipe]

9 hours ago, the galah said:

Just wanting it to have a soft run before the bigger races for 3yo fillies that are to come in Southland. Just taking the punters for mugs. But the stipes enable it through their inaction. It is what it is.

So YOU know that and don't put any of your hard earned on.  So you are not a mug punter perhaps they others that rely solely on arbitrage, algorithms based on statistical form analysis are.  They're not really that knowledgeable about the sport are they?

Do you think the Preferential Barrier Draw race condition adds to the problem?  From that draw on that track it was always going to drop out to last.  

 

 

[the galah]

34 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

So YOU know that and don't put any of your hard earned on.  So you are not a mug punter perhaps they others that rely solely on arbitrage, algorithms based on statistical form analysis are.  They're not really that knowledgeable about the sport are they?

Do you think the Preferential Barrier Draw race condition adds to the problem?  From that draw on that track it was always going to drop out to last.  

 

 

You put the video up,and like i say it always tells the story.Anyone who watches the video can make up their own mind.

I never said it wasn't going to drop out to last,and yes i have done my own stats as to where the winners in those mile races down south draw. There is a definite pattern.  

But if your opinion is that Play Philly was driven in a manner to obtain the best possible finishing position,then that about sums up why i often disagree with you.

So on this occasion the people with the arbitrage and algorithms, as you put it, were mugs in my opinion to bet on a $1.40 shot to win,when that horse was driven by Mr Close.And so it proved. As i have said before,mr close is one of the most naturally talented drivers in nz,but as doomed stated earlier,punters deserve better than to see a $1.40 shot driven like a 50/1 shot.Thats my last comment on that race.

Edited February 3, 2022 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

In the words of the best - Roy Purdon ....

“Dad was very kind with the horses, I never heard him even raise his voice with a horse,” says Barry.

“That was such a special gift and then he had amazing attention to detail.

“He believed that those little things, the extra little details, were the difference between winning and losing the biggest races.”

 

Just 15 months ago champion trainer Mark Purdon received a reminder of the greatness of his father Roy, the harness racing icon who passed away on Thursday.

Roy was 93 at the time but his eye for detail hadn’t deserted him and he rang Mark to tell him what he thought was bothering superstar pacer Self Assured, who was just days away from trying to win the New Zealand Cup but had been galloping away.

“Dad rang and said he had watched a race the night before and then replayed it a few times the next morning and he thought Self Assured needed an undercheck on to help him step safely,” remembers Mark.

“I looked at it and realised he was right. So we put the undercheck on, he stepped brilliantly and we won the Cup.

“That was what Dad saw watching on television from 1000kms away which I hadn’t worked out sitting behind the horse.

“And that was as a 93-year-old,” says Mark proudly.

 

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, the galah said:

But if your opinion is that Play Philly was driven in a manner to obtain the best possible finishing position,then that about sums up why i often disagree with you.

No I actually agree that she could have been driven more aggressively.  A Natalie drive perhaps but Robbie Close is not Nat is he?

4 minutes ago, the galah said:

So on this occasion the people with the arbitrage and algorithms, as you put it, were mugs in my opinion to bet on a $1.40 shot to win,when that horse was driven by Mr Close.And so it proved. As i have said before,mr close is one of the most naturally talented drivers in nz,but as doomed stated earlier,punters deserve better than to see a $1.40 shot driven like a 50/1 shot.Thats my last comment on that race.

Why should it be your last comment?  In this case you have definite evidence bordering on unequivocal rather than your usual supposition and innuendo.  Why don't you do something like send a written complaint to the RIB and HRNZ.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why not?  If you are correct then it does not bode well for Harness Racing in general if the only Harness Racing Track directly accessible to 1.5m people is "justifiable or sustainable".

Don't think accessibility to the human population is a big factor. Covid aside, most of New Zealand is accessible to that population. Proximity to the horse population is what will more likely generate competitive racing and thus wagering revenue to cover stakes funding.

[Brodie]

16 hours ago, Davis said:

Money to be made at Auckland mate... look more closely... $12 shot in the third from strikerate trainer Wigg, easy money

Be ok  if you can get on for a reasonable amount.

[Brodie]

To be fair, why does anyone bet on mile racing?

Any horse can run over a mile in a quick time.

It is a total lottery this stupid short distance racing in NZ, and there should be a mandate from Robertson to have 2000m as a minimum distance!!

[Chief Stipe]

16 hours ago, Davis said:

Money to be made at Auckland mate... look more closely... $12 shot in the third from strikerate trainer Wigg, easy money

Good spotting.

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, curious said:

Proximity to the horse population is what will more likely generate competitive racing and thus wagering revenue to cover stakes funding.

So move all Harness Racing to Canterbury?

[mikeynz]

21 minutes ago, Brodie said:

To be fair, why does anyone bet on mile racing?

Any horse can run over a mile in a quick time.

It is a total lottery this stupid short distance racing in NZ, and there should be a mandate from Robertson to have 2000m as a minimum distance!!

It's funny you say that about mile racing yet in the good old USA that's all they have, it don't make it right but it is what it is.

In some ways mile races should be a bit like 20/ 20 cricket, a novelty but like any other novelty we hammer it do death till the novelty wears off.

Edited February 3, 2022 by mikeynz

[Gammalite]

3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

So move all Harness Racing to Canterbury?

That would be tragic !  imagine no harness at Alexandra Park after all the great racing there for decades. sad..

Albion Park would of 'folded' years ago except for the efforts and financial backing of harness loving businessmen Chris Garrard and Kevin Seymour. Auckland needs 'Rich' support . Call the 'Hugh Green Foundation' or something ?

The Greens won bucket loads in Auckland , John even got married at the Alex park track , Surely he (and businessmen like him) could save the day ???  (or do we need to start a 'Go fund me Page ?lol..  )

And if you need more stables and horse to fill up fields !!!  EASY FIX .

Get rid of this stupid Training 'Partnerships' . Have One trainer per Licence ??

Instant fix Solution  . BarryPurdon with own horses ,  Phelan with own horses ; Steven Reid with own, S McMullan with own, Hollis ;  Ferguson ; Cooney ....  etc etc

get more stables and horses going so more Competition , therefore more fields , therefore more Betting 

 

[Chief Stipe]

In a way I agree with @curious and I also agree with you @Gammalite.

In my opinion both Ellerslie AND Alexandra Park need a pool of locally trained horses.  

[Brodie]

7 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

That would be tragic !  imagine no harness at Alexandra Park after all the great racing there for decades. sad..

Albion Park would of 'folded' years ago except for the efforts and financial backing of harness loving businessmen Chris Garrard and Kevin Seymour. Auckland needs 'Rich' support . Call the 'Hugh Green Foundation' or something ?

The Greens won bucket loads in Auckland , John even got married at the Alex park track , Surely he (and businessmen like him) could save the day ???  (or do we need to start a 'Go fund me Page ?lol..  )

And if you need more stables and horse to fill up fields !!!  EASY FIX .

Get rid of this stupid Training 'Partnerships' . Have One trainer per Licence ??

Instant fix Solution  . BarryPurdon with own horses ,  Phelan with own horses ; Steven Reid with own, S McMullan with own, Hollis ;  Ferguson ; Cooney ....  etc etc

get more stables and horses going so more Competition , therefore more fields , therefore more Betting 

 

More trainers on their own wont bring in more owners  unfortunately!

Reality is that harness has lost a generation and this Covid BS is going to make things worse if that is possible.
There is very little money in it for anyone nowadays and that includes the punters, as they get hammered if they are successful.

Auckland can not attract enough people into the sport to even be able to run successful Junior driver races, so that is an i dictment on the sport surely.

The costs to owners is prohibitive compared to the prospects of winning sufficient money to make it pay.

The yearling sales this year is going to be very interesting, to see if the average owner is prepared to front up and pay big money for horses with the likelihood of losing money.

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

Am I wrong @Brodie and @Gammalite but isn't Harness Racing in Queensland, NSW and Victoria getting stronger?  If so why?

[Gammalite]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

Am I wrong @Brodie and @Gammalite but isn't Harness Racing in Queensland, NSW and Victoria getting stronger?  If so why?

They're Run by People with a 'vision' and different attitude to what Brodster just posted ??

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Gammalite said:

They're Run by People with a 'vision' and different attitude to what Brodster just posted ??

So they are getting stronger?  Where is the main Harness Training Centre in Melbourne?

[Gammalite]

21 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

So they are getting stronger?  Where is the main Harness Training Centre in Melbourne?

Victoria is very strong Chief . Day and night trots every day. There are locations all over Victoria. most people have their own. Victoria as you fly in as plane descends,  and look out the plane window , you can see private training tracks in all directions . Is amazing sight.

TONIGHT the Whole Melton Race-card is for the Fabulous Square-gaiters !! McShane would of loved it .

Victoria (Maryborough esp.) promote squaregaiters fabulously, to keep some tradition going......

A racecard for all the beautiful trotters!! . The very Best actually race Twice !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  how cool ! like the old days.

TEMPORALE is one of them for New Zealand ! may the racing gods see him go close to taking it out hopefully , as would be great for Suzanne Herlihy and fellow Nz owners.  (Great Southern Star) 

[Chief Stipe]

Yeah @Gammalite I just did a Google Maps flyover around Melton.  Tracks everywhere.  Used to be like that in Canterbury.

28 Harness Tracks in Victoria.  Racing 7 days a week.  They've made big investments in Melton (40km from Melbourne Central) and at Bendigo they have a Harness Training Centre offering Career Training.  http://www.hrtcbendigo.com.au/welcome/

Perhaps that's the sort of vision both NZTR and HRNZ need in NZ.

[Chief Stipe]

Wouldn't it be innovative of the two horse codes to get together and develop a training centre for young people in NZ.  They wouldn't have to look hard to find suitable horses.  Geez they could even centralise the RIB Testing and Equine Research investments.  Yeah na.....no room in Parnell or Petone for horses.

[Chief Stipe]

Perhaps one of those racecourses they are going to "retire" could be the Dual Code Training and Research Centre.

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

TONIGHT the Whole Melton Race-card is for the Fabulous Square-gaiters !! McShane would of loved it .

That's special.  Nothing like good free legged trotters in full flight.

I had the joy of working a pacer unhobbled on a beach a few years back.  She got it into her head to trot and picked up the bit.  We were flying down the beach skipping along the waters edge.  Both of us enjoying it immensely.  I'm not so sure the Trainer was too impressed....as we were working faster than ordered.

[Huey]

It's all started heading downhill at an accelerating rate when these governing bodies start hammering away at the provincials and the base of the industry, it'll won't last let alone return to anything like it has been unless someone can come in grab the industry by the neck and virtually change the approach to the opposite of what it is now! 

[Gammalite]

18 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yeah @Gammalite I just did a Google Maps flyover around Melton.  Tracks everywhere.  Used to be like that in Canterbury.

28 Harness Tracks in Victoria.  Racing 7 days a week.  They've made big investments in Melton (40km from Melbourne Central) and at Bendigo they have a Harness Training Centre offering Career Training.  http://www.hrtcbendigo.com.au/welcome/

Perhaps that's the sort of vision both NZTR and HRNZ need in NZ.

One problem is the centres are usually out of town. So you get No crowds (public attendance)

Harold Park Sydney used to have huge crowds. When it closed they went to Menangle (an hour away ) 65kms. so it's pretty much just owners that attend regularly.

Moonee Valley Melbourne was a fantastic venue for the pacers/trotters with Gammalite, Popular Alm , Scotch Notch and Maori's Idol (and bucket loads more greats) strutting their stuff.  Shifting to Melton 40 kms out is great for the local trainers there , but not much public at all these days. just industry participants mainly.

BUT if Auckland is knackered as this thread (and everyone suggests ) Cambridge should be the place ???? Lots of great studs , and horse country in the Waikato. Hamilton people could surely support the 2 codes in that area , just bring back some On-course only Jackpots or something ?? get benefactors to put a 'car' up for grabs , pick the card or something like that on course. People would turn up , IF there is a chance they can get something out of it. ?? 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Gammalite

[Chief Stipe]

22 minutes ago, Huey said:

It's all started heading downhill at an accelerating rate when these governing bodies start hammering away at the provincials and the base of the industry, it'll won't last let alone return to anything like it has been unless someone can come in grab the industry by the neck and virtually change the approach to the opposite of what it is now! 

I've always been a proponent of the approach:  "If what you are currently doing isn't working do the complete opposite."  Add to that "Don't believe your own fucking propaganda!  When you do you fail."  That last one is aimed at the TAB.