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Everything posted by Gammalite
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I suppose it's only for a short distance in a race that a whip is actually used. So perhaps the modification could be made to gallop without it ? 🤔. When you see old cowboy and Indian and cavalry movies the horses are trained to charge in full flight with urgings of the rider , and they (the magnificent horses) seem to enjoy stretching right out at a full gallop like they would in the wild if they were mustangs or brumbies , and not a whip in sight. Some interesting thoughts on training are common. You don't see too many under the whip in training gallops or even barrier trials for that matter. And working dogs (albeit , they are slightly more intelligent animal) are all trained without ever coming under a whipping or beating,( unless some snow sled drongo in Greenland gets a bit excited with his huskies) Horses that are struck hard with the whip are likely to experience pain and fear. Even if there is no contact, a horse’s previous experience may mean that simply waving the whip is enough to induce fear. Intentionally causing pain and fear in animals can never be ethically acceptable. A fearful horse is also likely to be more reactive, and this may reduce both horse and rider safety. 2) Does the horse understand? It’s vital that the rider/handler understands how horses learn, knows the difference between negative reinforcement (removing pressure when a horse does what is being asked) and positive punishment (punishing a horse for an unwanted behaviour – a strategy that is often unhelpful and always ethically questionable), and understands the crucial importance of correct timing. Operant conditioning is widely used in the successful training of many species, including dogs and zoo animals. Training of horses is typically based on negative reinforcement and, increasingly, positive reinforcement. Negative punishment is less common. Positive punishment is ethically questionable and often unhelpful. For use of the whip to be acceptable (either with or without prior use of the leg), the horse must have been taught how they should respond to the rider’s cues (aids). The rider/trainer should also understand that horses do not think like humans and are not capable of making complex connections between events. For instance, some people feel that it is acceptable to punish a horse because ‘he knows what I want him to do – he’s just being stubborn’. This attitude shows that the handler is overestimating the horse’s intellectual abilities – such ‘punishment’ is abuse. If the horse does not understand why the whip is being used then, for them, being whipped is just some random (and often unpleasant) act on the part of their handler or rider. This is unlikely to build the trusting relationship that we should all be striving to establish with our horses.
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Only 2 weeks to the 2025 Hunter Cup. What a race it will be with a few Kiwi Top-liners coming over to try and Win the Australian version of the NZ Cup. can't wait as is gunna be amazing. Current 'AG Hunter Cup' Title holder LEAP TO FAME was awesome last night completely monstering a weak field at Albion Park , but just the way he does it is 'Lazarus' like . He's like a V8 revving up against 6 cylinder rivals . Todays Photo captures a Brilliant NZ double Hunter Cup winner . ( have a go at any of these quiz questions and have a great Sunday ! 🌞 ) A/ Can you pick who she is ? B/ Who has she defeated in the photo ? C/ She had 3 live foals and One of them Amazingly also Won the Hunter Cup in Victoria . He was ...?
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Just something they use here to correspond with the handicapping. which is done in metres. Always think of 3m as equals One length , and you can't go wrong. If a horse wins by 5 lengths , that's 15 m so pretty easy to convert. Says when it says that 'Better Reaction' was beaten 10m so that is just over 3 lengths ,( and is therefore more precise in the actual measurement )
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A Harold Park specialist , with 40 wins there , in the same era as Delightful Lady who had about the same ability winning 40 odd at Alexandra Park. Koala King not well known in NZ , so not surprised his photo hard to pick. A 'Bit of a Yarn' on him, is way back 1978 he had his one trip to NZ for the Auckland Cup , but after leading and running 7th on the first night of the meeting in the lead -up race , the bloody Aucklanders Balloted him out !!😳 . so he won the Consolation easily in the same race time as Sole Command ran, winning the Cup for Roy and BarryP. A bit still to go all that way , and then ballot him out lol. Shame they didn't try that with Swayzee at Addington 😂. Here's the Koala King moment of All time anyway . Powering past fabulous Nz horse Locarno (Robin Butt 2nd) to win the Interdominion Final at his home track at Harold Park 1980.
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Those 2 horses had something in common . Both won only 3 races each in NZ.😎 When I was a kid in NZ and going on trips around the North Island , Brian Notman had taken Village Kid to Wellington for his maiden and when on the circuit, we all punted it Big time first up . and it run no-where 😂🤣. He returned to Auckland soon after and won 3 straight 😅, the bugger , before finding C3 class a little bit harder. Notman sold him off for 40k and he became the first 2 Million dollar Australasia horse for Bill Horn ( a butcher lol) Westburn Grant Won the Triple crown bonus with 3 out of 3 at Addington including the Derby . whatta champ. One of the best I ever saw. A Bit of a Yarn story= went with some friends on the Picnic Bus from Hobart to Launceston one year when on holiday there, And When Westburn Grant was visiting Tassie for the Australian Pacing Championship. Quite a big crowd and a daytime event, and the Big race came up , and there was cheering and that going on , and We were picnicking down the front by the rail , and trying to get close to the winning post. Westburn Grant went sailing past on his own in full stride , and being the finish of the race thought must of been a crash or something 😳 , but he was just that far in front , we were straining out over the rail looking for some of the better horses in the race , but they were scattered like Brown's Cows All the way down the straight 😁 . He was that awesome he had completely smashed them by huge margins. Best since Popular Alm . probably only Leap To Fame (and Lazarus) better than WG?
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Incorrect , but great try . Here's WESTBURN GRANT winning One of his 2 Miracle Mile 's for you in another great photo . ( and Vic Frost ) running a place there is Robert Dunn on a New Zealander actually. that number 4 horse . Ranga would get it lol 😅 And our 'Superstar' winning one of his 2 Miracle Miles as well . clear on his own. Like Preux Chevalier he did Win the Hunter Cup , Interdominion , and Miracle Mile so is a Grand Slam Champion. Day 3 Q/ Who is the Superstar ?
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The great horse almost completed the Grand slam as Won the Big 3 races in Aussie , and had a sneaky go at the NZ Cup , but only 4th to Borana. Great effort though. Correct ! Pure Steel won 3 Hunter Cups , raced in about 4 Miracle Miles for a win and a placing behind Robin Butt's Locarno in one of the best Miracle Miles ever. but Steelo 2nd, 3rd and 4th in 3 x Interdominion Finals . So Close !!
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Yep , but couldn't quite win the Miracle Mile with Vinny Knight and Poppy too good. Great patient drive by Vinnie in this . Think he was thinking of driving like a NZer driver for a change 😁👍
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hell yeah !! 😂
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captian hammerhead/ shepparton cup/punters outraged?
Gammalite replied to the galah's topic in Trotting Chat
you want to win the race ? As Brodster pointed out it helps with more vigorous driving too. They were driving pretty hard in this race. They sit a whole lot stiller in NZ races and try and just time their run at the line with a big finish half the time ? A lot of Auckland races seem like that anyway 🤔. As I mentioned another time (like in the Interdominion recently ) the Aussies give it full gas the second last quarter a lot these days in feature races , in LEAP TO FAME style, and just try to keep momentum up the last bit , and it's Often NOT the fastest quarter these days in the run home. But don't worry Mr Galah. The connections of Kanena Provlima are on Your side , which is nice, and have given the Drive on the horse to DAVID MORAN this week 🤣, In the Big 100k Ballarat Cup Sat night, as must of been feeling for him getting disqualified last week with that incident . 👍🏆 when they got promoted lol. 😁 All they need is some extra boot laces now , and when he jumps in the gig on Saturday just Tie his Boot to the Footrest !!😎 (just in case 😉 ) and All will Be well once again , and he might get the Prize/win and keep it this week? -
6 more great horses. 6 of the Very best that attracted huge crowds. With the AG Hunter Cup (Australia's version of the NZ Cup) on in just 2 weeks time , it is fitting to see ALL Six of these great Warriors won that great race. The Hunter Cup had a flat spot for a few years straight after these 6 horses had won and was converted to a general 2400m FFA worth 20k for non-descript winners.😪 LUCKILY in 1993 , they re-invented the race 👍 for a big prize 💰over distance from a stand. and up stepped Master Musician for Robert Dunn and Blossom Lady to win the next 3 editions. NZ with 16 wins v OZ with 16 wins since 1993 so a great race for the kiwi's is the Hunter Cup 🏆 A/ Who are these 6 greats ? B/ and which one would be good enough to take the GRAND SLAM ? of Miracle Mile ( in some of these photos) The Hunter Cup and the Interdominion Pacing Championship crown ?
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Cecil a Tasmanian. went over there in his young days to win a few NZ Cups and teach the locals (including the Son in Law Kevin ) how to do the job properly ? 😋
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Christian Cullen also a winner of the Biggest race in Australia that year as well . Day 2/ Here's a ripper for today , with another kiwi trained horse who also achieved that Big Double . Slicing through late between Two great Interdominion Grand Final winners to take the Victory. 🏆 a/ The winner is....... ? b/ The Placegetters are...... ? (both NZ bred champions) clue= The horse on the left Won this race a couple of times himself and was the first Standardbred to reach the $2,000,000 in Oz or NZ.
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Starting here . Name any of a/ the horse ? ,b/ the race ? , or c/ the 2nd placegetter ? here to get the roll of champions under way !!! Good Luck.
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With Plenty of Trans Tasman Champions and great racing over the last few decades , Have done some beautiful photos up to catch these magic moments in Time. Will post them Up here over a few weeks as the BIG races draw near like the Hunter Cup and time honoured Miracle Mile , then an Interdominion in Brisbane. might be able to send some as prizes for quizzes and that if people can pick some of the moments . I'm making an amazing album up. Printed photo's have a Magical way of capturing amazing moments in time. Have a great Mix of NZ and Aus champs and races as they are All fantastic . The greats of 2 countries.
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captian hammerhead/ shepparton cup/punters outraged?
Gammalite replied to the galah's topic in Trotting Chat
Only have to see forums to see lack of respect for Stipes , starters, clubs , Handicappers anyone at all trying to help run the show 🤣😉. The Galah being a fair bloke (and myself) one of the few happy to see investigations happen (like Inca) to keep them all on the straight and narrow . Inca was difficult because it had massive Police involvement, as race fixing is a criminal charge and very complicated. (It's not just a racing sanction) so they got all tangled up like a bad beginner from a stand lol. 😂 You only have to look at the general lack of respect for the Police in society. (and umpires and referees in a lot of different sport) and it's seeming almost part of human nature ?. ( To argue against authority) and Penalties given against. Some people get off light ?. What about Dunn's with the the DQ of 4 horses in 2017 for Caffiene. Got off VERY light with just a fine , then did what you said and 'Appealed' and even got the fines reduced !! 🙄😳. I say that's the error and just BS 😅 . There should be penalties given for offences and the perpetrators should Suck It Up 😂🤣. I hate Prison Parole lol. Once sentenced = Do your Time 👍 -
captian hammerhead/ shepparton cup/punters outraged?
Gammalite replied to the galah's topic in Trotting Chat
Fair enough. we get that. But that's the same for every Steward and court case going. Someone is 'always trying to compare' to previous similar incidents to try and get a similar outcome. on appeal . What Chief and I are saying is Stewards an Offence was committed, a penalty applied by the stewards on duty . Professionals at this job with years of experience. alas the penalty was pretty harsh . Yes .and as mentioned I have known drivers to be fined for dropping a leg . usually late on in a race to get better whip contact as the Brodster observed. This Moran case Does Not Appear to be ''Hocking' to me. He wasn't trying to hit the horses leg with his boot . The Horses leg was thundering into him instead. I would of just fined him as the horse won convincingly and a DQ is harsh. but rule's need to be enforced or 'Anarchy ' reigns supreme 🤣😂 But like a 'head high shot' at the footy , there's always debate about 'deliberateness' v accidentalness and penalties vary from one week to 3 weeks. It's just an interpretation by the officials . same as Stewards. or even in the Law courts. Penalized person just has to suck it Up and get on with it. 😉 Moran deciding to bypass Ballarat Cup now though, when could of got the Ultimate 'make up for it's for the punters and horse connections. His Loss of opportunity for redemption. -
captian hammerhead/ shepparton cup/punters outraged?
Gammalite replied to the galah's topic in Trotting Chat
Don't know why they have to overturn it ? just because you don't agree with it. Other incidents are separate affairs. Chief put the video on the first page of this thread . (thank you Chief) and it shows his leg come down at the 200 , and it didn't look like a slip to me. And he didn't rush to put the leg back up or anything. (until he was sure he had the race Won) So the Stewards applied the rule as best they could from observations. That's What they Do all the time. Rules are broken , they take action. nothing wrong with that. Personally I think the penalty given was harsh though ( but it will deter ALL in future) A bit like McGrath getting the excessive milkshake DQ there. No one else game enough to milkshake now and get 7-8 years 😎 You can't take any notice of 'honesty' from drivers. I always just blamed the horse , no matter what happened lol 🤣. Moran has 'packed the shits' and Not put Captain Hammerhead in the 100k Ballarat Cup this week Sat now 😋, so Kanena Provlima might get a fair and square Win 🏆👍. Great young driver James Herbertson has a choice of 2 of the favourites drives though , so will be interesting. -
Champions Day NZ seems to be a moving feast!
Gammalite replied to Chief Stipe's topic in Galloping Chat
Sounds an excellent day out. The Everest is a roaring success , and yes if a horse is to be scratched for some reason it does complicate things. But everyone wants to start , and what a great bit of publicity for racing. Also connections are made between slot holders and the horse people involved. There could be the odd one that goes sour , but they'll just have to man up and move on. Past 3 years NZ harness has introduced 4 slot races ( using the new Addington November one's (the Velocity and Ascent) as a lead up to the Derby (s) (for trotters and pacers divisions) so you end up with 4 great races full of the best talent (attracted by the money somewhat) but what's wrong with that ? The Gallopers ( and racing folk ) can have a great day out seeing the best (most of the best that aren't sooking) and earn a great Prize and a lot of it paid for by the participants . A good thing too. Put their money where their mouth is lol. and it makes for bigger prizes like the Everest in Sydney. Career and magic moments achieved by some horses and slot holders. The jockeys have plenty of moments so don't care so much about their fortune 🤣. should of done it for NZ based jockeys only though. -
captian hammerhead/ shepparton cup/punters outraged?
Gammalite replied to the galah's topic in Trotting Chat
Stewards have chased up drivers for decades regarding whip use , and even in the 80's and 90's a lot of drivers were fined and / or suspended for whip infringements. it's nothing new like a lot of people think . (because of the silly counting that jockeys have to do) The trotting drivers are quite 'calm' these days as have to keep the reins in 2 hands instead of the one hand that was prevalent for a very long time. That enabled them to drive hard with the whip. it's very tame now. Here's the latest Whip Rule 's . Been amended 6 times in the last 15 years. Here's the latest Sept 2020 amendment enforced in all the states and territories. The Australian Harness Racing industry continues to be at the forefront of equine health and welfare, including the way in which drivers can apply the whip. As society’s expectations of welfare continue to evolve at a rapid rate, particularly with regards to racing animals, what was once considered acceptable practice has been transformed by both science and culture. Our industry, conscious of these expectations, continues to rise to the challenge of finding a balance between community and industry expectations for ourselves - rather than having it thrust upon us from the outside. Questions of sustainability, ethics, integrity and transparency need honest and ongoing assessment, while the provision of information is critical to educate and provide confidence for all sectors. In fact, rules of racing regarding the whip have been progressively moderated with 6 amendments since 1 January 2010. While many drivers found each change difficult initially, over time, the industry has adapted, without impacting on horse or driver performance - indeed race times have continued to become faster in the period since the whip changes were introduced. Whilst we can all agree that significant progress has been made, the number of penalties still being incurred, and the instances of unacceptable whip action still being observed are an indication that the rules in their current state require adjustment. This new rule has been discussed and debated at length, particularly among integrity teams, in an effort to formulate this latest iteration to be easy to understand, simple to comply and straightforward to police. The wrist only flicking action is designed to limit the force with which a whip can be applied whilst still allowing its principal use as a means of communication between the driver and horse. The limitation of force, both perceived and actual, is the crux of the whip rule amendments. All within the industry are urged to watch the training video (click here to view) and make themselves familiar with the required action. Practice and film your own whip action and compare it to ensure you are within the set limits. The social licence for harness racing to operate is hard fought among the changing expectations of the wider community - and needs to be protected. Taking a proactive approach to self-moderation as an industry is critical to our future. Every Drive. Every Race. Every Horse. Rule 156, applicable from 1 September 2020 in all States 156. (1) (a) A driver shall only use and be in possession of a whip approved by the Controlling Body. (b) A whip, once approved:- (i) shall not be modified in any manner; (ii) shall be maintained in a satisfactory condition; (c) A whip that does not comply with sub-paragraph (b) may be confiscated by the Stewards. (2) (a) A driver shall only apply the whip in a wrist only flicking motion whilst holding a rein in each hand with the tip of the whip pointed forward in an action which does not engage the shoulder. (b) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (a), “wrist only flicking motion” means:- (i) Ensuring no force is generated by the use of the elbow or shoulder when applying the whip. (ii) The forearm is not raised beyond forty-five degrees relative to the racing surface. (iii) Not applying the whip with overt force. (3) A driver shall not use a whip in an unapproved manner. (4) For the purposes of sub-rule (3) a driver shall be deemed to have used the whip in an unapproved manner in the following circumstances which are not exclusive:- (a) If the whip is applied excessively, continuously and/or without allowing the horse time to respond. (b) If the whip is applied when the horse: (i) is not visibly responding; (ii) is not in contention; (ii) cannot maintain or improve its position; (iv) is clearly winning; (v) has passed the winning post at the finish of a race. (c) If the reins are lengthened so as to result in loose reining regardless of whether the whip is being used at the same time. (d) If the whip is used in a prodding or jabbing fashion. (5) A driver shall not use the whip in a manner which causes injury to a horse. (6) A whip shall not be used so as to obstruct, strike or endanger another driver or horse. (7) A driver shall not allow a whip to project outside the sulky. (8) A person who fails to comply with any provision of this Rule is guilty of an offence For more information contact HRA CEO Andrew Kelly on 03 9227 3000 or akelly@hra.com.au -
Don't know how you blokes are struggling with this race so much 😎. these gallopers all seem 'very finicky' about what distance they race over . There were 4 nice horses racing over 1400m. At 1400m Orchestral 2 starts for just one x 2nd placing, Shamus with 8 starts for 4 wins, Acquarello 4 starts for a win and a 2nd, Pour the Wine 2 starts for one x 2nd placing at 1400. Shamus all day looks the winner then . get ya money on. looks a special 💰. 🏇😉
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captian hammerhead/ shepparton cup/punters outraged?
Gammalite replied to the galah's topic in Trotting Chat
Stipes decisions are quite often difficult to make . some of the jockey ones in close finishes cause people to be agree with the decision or refute it greatly. No jockey ever says he deliberately bumped the other horse etc . The stewards just have to decide on whether the horse 'would of Won or not , if it wasn't for the incident that occured. when A horse changing racing line etc. This decision with the dropped foot seems huge . as a disqualification is quite brutal (for connections and Punters) I don't think the decision was based on whether the horse was going to win or Not, but the act that was applied between driver and horse . The heavy Penalty has One Serious Advantage . It will STOP/deter others making that error in the future. Here are the DisQualification rules for Australian harness racing . I would say the Stewards applied the Last 2 Clauses . You could say they have an argument For these clauses. but it does seem Harsh, as the horse Won Super Well . Disqualification 64. If a horse fails to start in a race from its correct handicap mark or its correct barrier position it may be disqualified or declared a non-starter in that race. 65. If the Stewards find that a horse or a trainer or driver was ineligible to compete in a race they may disqualify the horse from the race or declare such horse a non-starter and make any consequent changes to the placings. 66. A horse may be disqualified from a race or placed in a lower finishing position in a race if the horse - (a) crosses a horse without being clear of it; (b) jostles or interferes with a horse unless solely in response to the action taken by another horse or driver; (c) forces a passage where there is insufficient room; (d) forces a horse out of its ground; (e) races on the inside of a marker post or if its sulky or part thereof goes on the inside of a marker post; (f) interferes with another runner so as to cause that runner, or cause its sulky or any part thereof, to go inside a marker post; (g) being in the home straight and having a clear uninterrupted run to the post, changes course and thereby prejudices or advantages the chances of another runner. (h) gains an unfair advantage. (i) is driven in a manner prejudicial or detrimental to the reputational interests of harness racing. -
captian hammerhead/ shepparton cup/punters outraged?
Gammalite replied to the galah's topic in Trotting Chat
Well the bloke is a top driver ( even used by Emma Stewart on her array of star runners a few times in age group features at times) and also trained 100 winners from 400 starters across past 5 seasons. an excellent strike rate. So David Moran sure knows what he's doing . Of course he could say his foot slipped as you wouldn't admit to doing it purposely. (and very well could of slipped too, as in the heat of that moment in a vigorous contest with Kanena Provlima , he was 'working' very hard to try and head it off. But leaving the leg dangling ,meant the horses hoof struck it a number of times. a normal drive might see you move the leg after one strike ? Paleface Adios says 'Hocking' . I don't think so . He didn't push/swing his foot forward to do that. Stewards say 'Foul Play' to advantage, (because they disqualified him ) I think a bit harsh. He could of been off balance, he could of been in the instinctive moment you mentioned , with adrenaline surging and Will to Win being applied. (I think those not trying as hard are more of an issue for stewards lol 🤣) So yes the disqualification very harsh for a group 3 Cup race, that don't come along too often. (I believe drivers get fined for dropping a leg in Brisbane , but is a rare event) footnote: in case anyone wondering why this Aussie race being discussed, a NZ horse being set for the Hunter Cup was in it , and was of interest to the punters and NZ connections. TACT McLeod. he went fairly average sadly , and looks No Hunter Cup chance on his 2 Victorian races to date, for Anthony Butt and Mark Jones. -
Seems a good idea then. If the very TOP rated 2 and 3 year olds aren't there (whoever the ones are you a talking about ) then the next level can step up and enjoy some of the spoils too. so a pretty good thing really 😊. But isn't the Guinea's winner gunna be there? Thought SAVAGLEE was earmarking the 1.5 million Karaka million? So the best in Nation should be there all going well.
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What a relaxed chap. 6 years in America already he said. John should join him while still young enough lol. Dexter Said he had been Albion Park a few times in this interview , but can't remember him lol. 😂. he musn't of won anything.locals might have been a bit too slippery for him ? 😋 *The BIG Question Blackie ? would he beat Marky Boy in a Big race or is he just an 'American' pretender now ?😎 (Mark getting mowed down by CarterD at Cambridge the other night no help with that lol 😂)