the galah Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Personally I know about 10 blokes well at TAB's and NONE back Harness at all, and none even bet midweek gallops. They just bet on the BETTER HORSES that race at the Saturday Metro meetings (equal to betting at your Premier harness meetings) so is quite normal to BET and WIN on the best races available, with quality runners. This is quite NORMAL behaviour. (To get enjoyment and/or bet on the BEST horses and horsepeople) Decision: Verry Elleegant , or some midweek gallop battler should I put $ on ?? mmmmmmmmmm that just means they probably have a budget as relates to how much they can spend/lose. Their thinking is the same as what you really have been expressing.Why lose it midweek on races they have little knowledge of,when they can invest on horses they know something about at the weekend.their thinking being they are more likely to make money there because of their increased knowledge,which makes some sense. Its like betting on a provincial sports team. If your local team is playing your going to bet on them if you think they can win,not on a higher grade of the same sport you have no knowledge of. People also like to follow those they can relate to. Every sport/competition/race is an event with winners and losers. The quality doesn't have to be always at the highest level. they can all be entertaining. Edited May 20, 2021 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, the galah said: that just means they probably have a budget as relates to how much they can spend/lose. Their thinking is the same as what you really have been expressing.Why lose it midweek on races they have little knowledge of,when they can invest on horses they know something about at the weekend.their thinking being they are more likely to make money there because of their increased knowledge,which makes some sense. Its like betting on a provincial sports team. If your local team is playing your going to bet on them if you think they can win,not on a higher grade of the same sport you have no knowledge of. People also like to follow those they can relate to. Every sport/competition/race is an event with winners and losers. The quality doesn't have to be always at the highest level. they can all be entertaining. Exactly right. excellent post. A great attitude by you to support all levels of sport, whatever that sport might be, as an enthusiast of that sport. And also yes, Definitely have a budget . no good giving money away and chasing later .Brodie wanted to turnover $1 mill per year lol.. I just try and double 500 each week, and stick to that. You are absolutely right in that one should bet on what they have knowledge of. and of course What you find Entertaining. Edited May 20, 2021 by Gammalite correction 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Gammalite said: You must be Loving the new Vaccination ad's on NZ tele Brodster !! hehe they just put them on the news in Aus , with the big kiwi humour , partying angle of things . quite funny. no ad's broadcast here yet. Personally I know about 10 blokes well at TAB's and NONE back Harness at all, and none even bet midweek gallops. They just bet on the BETTER HORSES that race at the Saturday Metro meetings (equal to betting at your Premier harness meetings) so is quite normal to BET and WIN on the best races available, with quality runners. This is quite NORMAL behaviour. (To get enjoyment and/or bet on the BEST horses and horsepeople) Decision: Verry Elleegant , or some midweek gallop battler should I put $ on ?? mmmmmmmmmm So they bet only on Ozzie gallopers and not the harness? I can understand that if it is the gallops as divs are probably higher as fields have many chances . Are any of these winning punters on heavy restrictions in Oz or do they bet with the oncourse Bookies? The Ads are just BS, but most of this 8 competent bunch is just BS! Have a look at the Budget they announced today, if that is not RACISM on a major scale what is!!! Maori this Maori that, handouts!!! puke material really! Edited May 20, 2021 by Brodie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Was meant to be incompetent!,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 22 hours ago, the galah said: Isn't that the norm on 90% of nz harness on those aussie tabs.A lot comes down to how much pre race exposure they get,no matter what the class of horse racing. Correct and yet Ozzies love a bet on NZ Greyhounds and they get same pre race exposure. Just for the resident Arse a few weeks back Wairio held a Saturday meeting. Its local turnover including F/O was 18% of what was turned over on at Randwick betting. GBM's were vastly different as well so in the future wash up you know who the losers are going to be 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 14 hours ago, Brodie said: So they bet only on Ozzie gallopers and not the harness? I can understand that if it is the gallops as divs are probably higher as fields have many chances . Are any of these winning punters on heavy restrictions in Oz or do they bet with the oncourse Bookies? well the truth is the majority of harness horses racing in Australia , are going around week to week , just hoping for a good draw, and earning enough prize money to keep them going until the next week. not really set up for a punt by the stable or anything. Therefore are NOT a great Punting proposition. Only a very few are 'Set for particular races' like at the gallops , so are just playing for luck. Most metro (city racing) gallopers have a racing manager that 'set's out a raceplan' sometimes including race tactics even. stepping up in distance each start , to reach an OPTIMUM point of their preparation. (there are feature every week , every state, in Oz that many are primed for) Therefore are a SOLID Punting proposition. and the corporate bookies will accommodate the large bets , for loyal customers , that bet with them consistantly (each week) , and they know who they are. plenty of betting syndicates around. bit like that' Boys get Paid' . I signed in my 500 per week, for a six month term contract, but dropped out at that point as ,even though marginally in front, there was NO ENjoyment in not picking the Bets yourself. All done by computer I think. A lot of Gai Waterhouse runners too. !!! lol...... to be sure Robbie was involved lol...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 12 minutes ago, Gammalite said: well the truth is the majority of harness horses racing in Australia , are going around week to week , just hoping for a good draw, and earning enough prize money to keep them going until the next week. not really set up for a punt by the stable or anything. Same in NZ although a few rogues have tried to set them up for a punt by fair or foul means. Its ended badly for 3 of them in recent times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 1 minute ago, JJ Flash said: Same in NZ although a few rogues have tried to set them up for a punt by fair or foul means. Its ended badly for 3 of them in recent times. yes that Alford thing was pretty ordinary lately. never heard of that injection before. about once a month in Aus somewhere , someone will be trying the same thing. i.e (milkshake from the 90's era) and getting DQed. usually small time trainers running the gauntlet. in a different era they were fairly common, but testing this century is just too accurate. Irregularities pop up all the time, as horses are 'treated' all the time .just recently Amanda Turnbull and Kerryanne Morris (high profile trainers) are dealing with irregularities too. a lot of it is 'good staff' issues too, which I suspect is the case with the Sharrock Meth over their. Chris Waller had one of those in 2016 too. got off with a very big fine. wonder what happened to the staff member ?? lol....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 20, 2021 Author Share Posted May 20, 2021 54 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: Correct and yet Ozzies love a bet on NZ Greyhounds and they get same pre race exposure. Just for the resident Arse a few weeks back Wairio held a Saturday meeting. Its local turnover including F/O was 18% of what was turned over on at Randwick betting. GBM's were vastly different as well so in the future wash up you know who the losers are going to be I notice you didn't do a comparison with a NZ Galloping meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 20, 2021 Author Share Posted May 20, 2021 22 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: Its ended badly for 3 of them in recent times. Which THREE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Which THREE? Jesse Alford (7 yearsDQ) , Nigel McGrath (8 yearsDQ) , and ....... not sure on third BUT , WHY did these 2 Trainers get a different sentence for the same thing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 20, 2021 Author Share Posted May 20, 2021 30 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Jesse Alford (7 yearsDQ) , Nigel McGrath (8 yearsDQ) , and ....... not sure on third BUT , WHY did these 2 Trainers get a different sentence for the same thing ? McGrath got most of his sentence NOT for "setting up for the punt"! Come in HTP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Does seem rather harsh on McGrath. on a couple of basis points. The first to go was McGrath with a long sentence as a deterrent and example to others, then obviously Alford NOT deterred and went ahead with elaborate plan anyway. So should that make it be longer than the previous bloke , NOT shorter. (DQ sentence) and in Alford's case, didn't they accidently kill a horse? I mean that is pretty drastic. mis-treatment in more ways than one. and Formalin is what we used at Vet to 'Preserve' Biopsy samples from surgery in. It fixes tissue. and that was only 15% solution too. very strong stuff. you would rush to wash it off your skin if got a tiny splash on you , as is a very harsh chemical. Inject It into horse ?? deserves BIG sentence IMO. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: McGrath got most of his sentence NOT for "setting up for the punt"! Come in HTP. McGrath has had multiple suspensions for administering illicit substances to his horses. His sentence rightly reflects that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: Does seem rather harsh on McGrath. on a couple of basis points. The first to go was McGrath with a long sentence as a deterrent and example to others, then obviously Alford NOT deterred and went ahead with elaborate plan anyway. So should that make it be longer than the previous bloke , NOT shorter. (DQ sentence) and in Alford's case, didn't they accidently kill a horse? I mean that is pretty drastic. mis-treatment in more ways than one. and Formalin is what we used at Vet to 'Preserve' Biopsy samples from surgery in. It fixes tissue. and that was only 15% solution too. very strong stuff. you would rush to wash it off your skin if got a tiny splash on you , as is a very harsh chemical. Inject It into horse ?? deserves BIG sentence IMO. McGrath is a serial offender. He deserved every day of his seven year suspension. I think he got off lightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: and in Alford's case, didn't they accidently kill a horse? Rumour or fact? 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: and Formalin is what we used at Vet to 'Preserve' Biopsy samples from surgery in. It fixes tissue. and that was only 15% solution too. very strong stuff. you would rush to wash it off your skin if got a tiny splash on you , as is a very harsh chemical. Inject It into horse ?? deserves BIG sentence IMO. Formalin is an aqueous solution of formaldehyde. Gammalite your liver synthesises formaldehyde. If you didn't have formaldehyde in your body you would be dead as some key biochemical processes that sustain life would not happen. Yes formaldehyde can be used to fix cells and to stop decay. It is a key component of many hoof treatments. I haven't seen what the volume or % formaldehyde was in the solution that Alford was going to inject into the horse. But it is wrong to infer that he was "embalming the horse". That wouldn't be conducive to performance would it? The reality is that in any blood test formaldehyde will be present. One must assume that unless the RIU were sitting on positive results the levels detected in swabs were not viewed as abnormal. That would lead one to assume that the levels injected were low. Why use formaldehyde intravenously on a horse? Formaldehyde has been injected into horses by vets in an attempt to stop internal haemorrhaging particularly in severe EIPH cases. Judging on the comments that Alford has made the horse in question was a bleeder so he was attempting to limit the extent of EIPH. That said the science isn't conclusive on it working but it certainly isn't a go fast drug. EIPH is another one of the issues in my mind that unless a solution is found will contribute to the undoing of the industry. The majority of horses suffer some form of EIPH while racing. Lasix has been used both in competition and training in the USA and many top galloping trainers in OZ use it frequently in training. Chris Waller being one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, Davis said: McGrath has had multiple suspensions for administering illicit substances to his horses. His sentence rightly reflects that. These "illicit substances" were what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 55 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: These "illicit substances" were what? he had 2 positives to the drug known as blue magic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 1 minute ago, the galah said: he had 2 positives to the drug known as blue magic. What year were they? I realise you still use that torch for Mark Purdon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: What year were they? I realise you still use that torch for Mark Purdon. about 2005 i think. I don't refer to blue magic much,but you can hardly forget it can you. I am a believer in the best way to predict future behavior is to look at past behavior, but of course there are always exceptions to anything. As far as horses being set for races,and maybe not trying as mentioned earlier by other posters in this thread.I think when it comes to harness racing in 2021 in nz,some over analyse whether everyone is trying in every race. There is no doubt occasionally a horse may not be driven to win,but those occasions are very rare,and they stand out because of that. N.Z Harness racing drivers are very honest in my opinion. And on that very rare occasion that something dodgy driving wise occurs,it gets highlighted on sites like this one. I think sometimes you get drivers that seem to go through patches where they lose self confidence,and their form may drop off,but thats not because they aren't trying. An example of that currently is jessica young.Normally she is a good driver,but nearly all her drives in the last week have been poor,but we shouldn't confuse someone losing there confidence with someone not trying. Then you have the likes of dunn,orange,rasmussen,etc who are always in form. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 2 hours ago, the galah said: An example of that currently is jessica young. Jessica Young-Grant just ran third then with a good positive drive behind CORRAVALLY STAR , so has lifted her game for ya. Not the same odds for Samhara as last week. darn it all . maybe I should go to the midweeks? NO , better stick with good ones. 2 hours ago, the galah said: comes to harness racing in 2021 in nz,some over analyse whether everyone is trying in every race. yes , One bloke left me BEYOND WORDS the when it beat Amazing Dream one night , with his over-analysis of who's trying !! lol..... 2 hours ago, the galah said: that very rare occasion that something dodgy driving wise occurs,it gets highlighted on sites like this one. yes , I think that Temporale 5 horse trot race last month, was a bit of a joke loss, and the CLASSY Operator drive by Ferguson last week , was All about the stable-mate Meetmeinsorrento getting the chocolates. dodgy dodgems indeed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Jessica Young-Grant just ran third then with a good positive drive behind CORRAVALLY STAR , so has lifted her game for ya. Well its always better as a sit sprinter,and could have got the trail behind the 2nd favorite,so i thought it not a great drive.Connections had also previously said its better driven with cover about 3 months ago in the media. Edited May 21, 2021 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, the galah said: Well its always better as a sit sprinter,and could have got the trail behind the 2nd favorite,so i thought it not a great drive.Connections had also previously said its better driven with cover about 3 months ago in the media. yeah it left the gate so well I guess Jess just tried to take advantage of that fact. (corravally Star) certainly brought Dunns unstuck with Got you Covered. It was struggling a looong way out. and then his 2 yearold trotter galloped a few times you probably saw. He Dunn bad. (like that joke lol...) but Michael Purdon trotter looks a beauty. very bold 2 year old. Like the Hope Trotters just then . A fine Hope stable Quinella. they will be doing better than Williamson's at this rate of winning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 22, 2021 Author Share Posted May 22, 2021 I see Cullens UDR is still on the up. Big increases in the last 3 weeks. Looks like there might be an extra leg growing! $1.5m in stakes and the UDR is now 0.4305. Funny how statistics change (improve) during a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I see Cullens UDR is still on the up. Big increases in the last 3 weeks. Looks like there might be an extra leg growing! $1.5m in stakes and the UDR is now 0.4305. Funny how statistics change (improve) during a season. Maybe he is a better trainer than Purdon/Rasmussen? Maybe the holiday that they are taking should be extended? Edited May 22, 2021 by Brodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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