Cambridge demolition derby

[muzenza365]

1 hour ago, Newmarket said:

Yes, your correct. 
 

But if standards were better, rules were enforced and jockeys charged for careless riding this may not have happened. 
Seems you have never mentioned the poor riding standards in Canterbury, so your turning a blind eye. 

Correct, this is reinforced by the actions of T Moseley at Ashburton, who put 3 on the deck,all 3 Riders put into hospital ,any of the 3 could have had the same serious consequence as Tiger and he gets a 4 week suspension.

If these types of penalties are given out by the JCA, then this roughhouse riding will continue,

So Pam you must be believe Sam is guilty before the charge is proven, going by your statement that he must live with the consequences, so are you correct in your assumption? 

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, Newmarket said:

Yes, your correct. 
 

But if standards were better, rules were enforced and jockeys charged for careless riding this may not have happened. 
Seems you have never mentioned the poor riding standards in Canterbury, so your turning a blind eye. 

I have often seen Pam refer to the riding standards in the South. I do have sympathy for them. They often have less than one meeting a week and usually have to travel 100s of kilometres for a ride and seldom get to ride for big stakes. And they are likely to get put out for a few weeks if they make a mistake. It must be a tough life, and not much glamour these days riding at meetings with hardly any public in attendance.

[Freda]

2 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Yes, your correct. 
 

But if standards were better, rules were enforced and jockeys charged for careless riding this may not have happened. 
Seems you have never mentioned the poor riding standards in Canterbury, so your turning a blind eye. 

I have, plenty of times.  Get your facts straight before pointing the bone.

[Joe Bloggs]

2 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Yes, your correct. 
 

But if standards were better, rules were enforced and jockeys charged for careless riding this may not have happened. 
Seems you have never mentioned the poor riding standards in Canterbury, so your turning a blind eye. 

Freda doesn't need me to go in to bat for her, however you're a dick fo that comment, Freda has given riders in the S I stick over the years when it was deserved, even her own.........Taiki's death is as much the fault of the Japanese system as it is whoever caused the fall, allegedly Weatherley, so many young Japanese riders have to go overseas to do the 'learning', the Japanese have a lot to answer for, their culture is slowly being dragged into the 21st century but poor Taiki was the victim in two cases here and it fucking stinks.......clean up your act NZ and enforce harsher penalties on errant jockeys, here in Oz we have a few culprits that escaped lightly from tragic falls resulting in the deaths or maiming of horses, so in effect all racing jurisdictions should clean up their act with NZ and Japan leading the way!! There, I've said it!

[the galah]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

 Sam will have to carry the consequences of his actions for the rest of his life.

An awful burden.

No doubt weatherly will struggle to wrap his head around what he has done. Probably never will fully come to grips with it.

But the facts are he was suspended earlier in the day for 7 days for causing interference. So for him,knowing he had ridden in a way that caused bad interference earlier in the day,he went out and then deliberately made the split second decision to do ride dangerously again.How does anyone with one of the most dangerous occupations around have such a mindset? No other jockey does that?Thats not normal surely?

Reality is riding standards may not be what they used to be,and some dangerous split second decisions may have no consequences leading to apathy,but each case must be judged on its merits.

As to penalties. I see the earlier race i mentioned where sam spratt did a similar thing,but not in a way anywhere as dangerous,simply got a warning.Doesn't that indicate that even the judicial control of careless riding places not enough weight on safety?

Edited August 9, 2022 by the galah

[Freda]

28 minutes ago, the galah said:

No doubt weatherly will struggle to wrap his head around what he has done. Probably never will fully come to grips with it.

But the facts are he was suspended earlier in the day for 7 days for causing interference. So for him,knowing he had ridden in a way that caused bad interference earlier in the day,he went out and then deliberately made the split second decision to do ride dangerously again.How does anyone with one of the most dangerous occupations around have such a mindset? No other jockey does that?Thats not normal surely?

Reality is riding standards may not be what they used to be,and some dangerous split second decisions may have no consequences leading to apathy,but each case must be judged on its merits.

As to penalties. I see the earlier race i mentioned where sam spratt did a similar thing,but not in a way anywhere as dangerous,simply got a warning.Doesn't that indicate that even the judicial control of careless riding places not enough weight on safety?

Agree.

Many times I have seen riders cautioned or warned for an action that appeared to have little consequence, but when other riders/ horses are badly affected, then the penalty can be very different. 

But the ACTION is the same, and I struggle to see how one misdemeanor should be less serious than another exactly the same , just because the outcome is different.

Makes no sense.

And in the Moseley incident that Morty referred to, I have heard one of the riders brought down ridiculed, and even blamed, because he is a rider of modest achievement. 

Fair?  Hardly.

[mumbles]

Will WORK SAFE NZ be involved in the process at all?

 

 

[The Centaur]

2 hours ago, mumbles said:

Will WORK SAFE NZ be involved in the process at all?

 

 

Possibly. However based on precedent if there is proven culpability then it could cost racing millions.

Listened to Dave Ellis on RNZ this morning. He spoke very well with compassion. Then he dropped a bombshell. He said there hadn't been a race death for 100 years. Can't figure that one out at all. Wasn't the last in 2016. In the thirties they closed down the Takapuna track because of multiple deaths. Like to know the harm factor of synthetic tracks. There would seem less of a slide factor that can mitigate serious injury.

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

Agree.

Many times I have seen riders cautioned or warned for an action that appeared to have little consequence, but when other riders/ horses are badly affected, then the penalty can be very different. 

But the ACTION is the same, and I struggle to see how one misdemeanor should be less serious than another exactly the same , just because the outcome is different.

Makes no sense.

And in the Moseley incident that Morty referred to, I have heard one of the riders brought down ridiculed, and even blamed, because he is a rider of modest achievement. 

Fair?  Hardly.

Is there some type of rule which says you can only push out when you have an advantage over the horse you are doing it too,or at the very least are on level terms?

While the current case obviously involves contact on the back end of the horse,how is  bumping into a horse that you may be a neck or so behind conducive to human and horse safety.You see it every raceday many times,and every time i wonder what that will do to the horses body and confidence,and how it effects the mindset of the jockey on the end of it. So often it seems well,if your going to do that to me,watch out next time i'm going to do that to you.The penalties for such riding often seem non existent as you have pointed.

What happened seemed inevitable to happen at some stage if you watch nz thoroughbred racing,as tragic as it is.

Edited August 10, 2022 by the galah

[nomates]

12 minutes ago, The Centaur said:

Possibly. However based on precedent if there is proven culpability then it could cost racing millions.

Listened to Dave Ellis on RNZ this morning. He spoke very well with compassion. Then he dropped a bombshell. He said there hadn't been a race death for 100 years. Can't figure that one out at all. Wasn't the last in 2016. In the thirties they closed down the Takapuna track because of multiple deaths. Like to know the harm factor of synthetic tracks. There would seem less of a slide factor that can mitigate serious injury.

I can still remember the young fella that died in a race at Riverton at Easter time about 20 years ago , fell off horse but got foot caught in stirrup and got dragged along the fence line for a few hundred metres if i recall right . Might have been the catalyst for all courses getting the plastic running rails . It wasn't pretty to watch . 

[JMO]

33 minutes ago, nomates said:

I can still remember the young fella that died in a race at Riverton at Easter time about 20 years ago , fell off horse but got foot caught in stirrup and got dragged along the fence line for a few hundred metres if i recall right . Might have been the catalyst for all courses getting the plastic running rails . It wasn't pretty to watch . 

Sam McCrae? 

[Joe Bloggs]

38 minutes ago, nomates said:

I can still remember the young fella that died in a race at Riverton at Easter time about 20 years ago , fell off horse but got foot caught in stirrup and got dragged along the fence line for a few hundred metres if i recall right . Might have been the catalyst for all courses getting the plastic running rails . It wasn't pretty to watch . 

Why did they close Rangiora? I wasn't living there, however wasn't a young girl killed in a race? or a barrier trial, and if you look at Tony Williams, is the wheelchair cheaper than death? FFS, If Ellis is trying to lessen this, I wonder why?....why?

[Ronaldo]

1 hour ago, The Centaur said:

Possibly. However based on precedent if there is proven culpability then it could cost racing millions.

Listened to Dave Ellis on RNZ this morning. He spoke very well with compassion. Then he dropped a bombshell. He said there hadn't been a race death for 100 years. Can't figure that one out at all. Wasn't the last in 2016. In the thirties they closed down the Takapuna track because of multiple deaths. Like to know the harm factor of synthetic tracks. There would seem less of a slide factor that can mitigate serious injury.

 From memory the last Northern jockey to die as direct result of race fall  was December 1964 when leading apprentice Stephen Ganley died at Paeroa, the day they reopened the track. 

[The Centaur]

6 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Why did they close Rangiora? I wasn't living there, however wasn't a young girl killed in a race? or a barrier trial, and if you look at Tony Williams, is the wheelchair cheaper than death? FFS, If Ellis is trying to lessen this, I wonder why?....why?

I think Ellis is trying to support NZTR. Understandbly NZTR are very concerned.

[Newmarket]

6 hours ago, Freda said:

I have, plenty of times.  Get your facts straight before pointing the bone.

When was the last time you posted anything on here about poor, dangerous riding. Maybe have a look how many times I have,

[nomates]

3 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

When was the last time you posted anything on here about poor, dangerous riding. Maybe have a look how many times I have,

Well i have posted plenty about both SI and NZ riding standards and Pam is usually the first to post agreement . 

[Ludwig]

50 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

When was the last time you posted anything on here about poor, dangerous riding. Maybe have a look how many times I have,

That's a very poor post. One of Freda's themes is the poor quality of riding, particularly in the south. It is a constant theme, and she's not just jumping on the bandwagon because of what happened at Cambridge.

[Doomed]

4 hours ago, The Centaur said:

Possibly. However based on precedent if there is proven culpability then it could cost racing millions.

Listened to Dave Ellis on RNZ this morning. He spoke very well with compassion. Then he dropped a bombshell. He said there hadn't been a race death for 100 years. Can't figure that one out at all. Wasn't the last in 2016. In the thirties they closed down the Takapuna track because of multiple deaths. Like to know the harm factor of synthetic tracks. There would seem less of a slide factor that can mitigate serious injury.

Obviously Ellis doesn't count SI racing if that is what he thinks. There have been several SI jockeys killed in relatively recent times sadly. A bit poor he doesn't remember any of them.

[curious]

Yes Jo McGartland died at Rangiora in 2002. Ray Hewinson at Ashburton later that year and sadly but ironically that was at almost the same spot on the Ashburton track that his nephew Hunter Thomas had perished at almost 2 decades prior.  I find it hard to believe that Ellis could say something so ignorant and so dismissive.

[Shad]

42 minutes ago, curious said:

Yes Jo McGartland died at Rangiora in 2002. Ray Hewinson at Ashburton later that year and sadly but ironically that was at almost the same spot on the Ashburton track that his nephew Hunter Thomas had perished at almost 2 decades prior.  I find it hard to believe that Ellis could say something so ignorant and so dismissive.

Also Ashlee Mundy who was riding at kurow, and the last nasty fall at rangiora, was the end for racing on the track, still hold trials there quite regularly, have not heard of any issues with those. I not sure but i thought Hunter Thomas may have been riding a jumper, and maybe Ray Hewinson to, Hunter was apprenticed to the late Ray Harris I think, stand to be corrected if anyone out there knows.

[Doomed]

26 minutes ago, Shad said:

Also Ashlee Mundy who was riding at kurow, and the last nasty fall at rangiora, was the end for racing on the track, still hold trials there quite regularly, have not heard of any issues with those. I not sure but i thought Hunter Thomas may have been riding a jumper, and maybe Ray Hewinson to, Hunter was apprenticed to the late Ray Harris I think, stand to be corrected if anyone out there knows.

Yes Hunter was on a jumper at Ashburton. Incredible that someone like Ellis had never heard of all those southerners. I think his wife comes from Timaru, surely she would know.

[Shad]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

Yes Hunter was on a jumper at Ashburton. Incredible that someone like Ellis had never heard of all those southerners. I think his wife comes from Timaru, surely she would know.

Yes agree, one would think so, I been trying to remember the horse that hunter was riding at the time of his accident, I think it may have been a first time jumper, bloody sad when this happens and the grief left behind for family, friends and racing people alike.

[Gammalite]

just remembering Young Nz lass Ashlee Mundy was back home riding in Nz on a break from her home base at the Gold Coast when tragedy struck about 10 years ago at a Kurow meeting. They were saying at the time the young ladies were copping a horror run of injury and tragedy , that has continued at the rate of about one death per year from the young female jockeys. (the last jockey death Australia was Marina Morel Feb this year)

a sad story for the lasses doing something they love, with that ever-present danger involved. here's an article from 3 years ago  ............

 

MELBOURNE, Victoria, Australia - Nine out of the last ten jockeys to have died in racetrack incidents in Australia have been women.

Two jockeys were killed in the space of 24 hours, the first on Friday. Mikaela Claridge, 22 died in a routine training incident during track work in Cranbourne, in suburban Melbourne.

Then on Saturday, Melanie Tyndall, 32, at the Darwin Races, who had won the second race on a horse named Princess Leah, which marked her 150th win as a jockey - was killed in the third race when the heels of her horse clipped the heels of a horse in front.

Tyndall who had recently become a police officer with the Northern Territory Police Force, was engaged to be married.

"The impact of the loss of Melanie is deep and far-reaching," Brett Dixon, Chairman of the Darwin Turf Club, said Saturday.

"There's shock and disbelief right throughout the racing community," he said.

Des O'Keeffe, Chairman of the Australian Jockeys Association, told ABC News that horse racing was the most dangerous sport in Australia.

"Unfortunately, there was a study done many years ago which provided those facts, that as a sporting pursuit there is nothing more dangerous," he said.

"Safety equipment, whether it be plastic running rails, headwear, safety protective equipment, is as good as it can be. But there is an inherent danger in pursuing that profession."

Martin Talty, the association's CEO, was quoted by the ABC as saying that all 20 horse racing deaths since 2000 were "tragic accidents" occurring across all horse racing activities including race falls, track work and barrier trials.

"We all know it's a very dangerous sport, but it's a sport that all of these jockeys love," he said.

"And it's a sport that we all love, and when something like this happens, it's a community that is impacted not just in the Northern Territory, but Australia wide."

The fact that nine of the last 10 jockeys killed in Australia have been women was first reported by The Australian in a report penned by Brendan Cormick and Remy Varga, published on Monday.

"Any racing death is one too many, and it is hard to imagine you can go to work and not come home," Racing Vioctoria's Chief Medical Officer Gary Zimmerman said Sunday.

"To have two such tragic events happen in such a short time, everybody feels it," he told The Australian.

"We've got a lot more female jockeys in the industry now, but if anything I think I see more of the males than the females," he said.

The Australian listed the previous seven female jockeys, prior to the latest two who have been killed as: Donna Philpot and Riharna Thomas, who died in 2017; Frederike Ruhle and Liz Rice, who were killed at Caulfield in 2015; and Caitlin Forrest, Carly-Mae Pye and Simone Montgomerie, who died in 2014.

The sole male rider who has died of the past 10 of jockeys to have died was Darren Jones, who was killed on a New South Wales country track in 2015.

Pictured: Melanie Tyndall

3 hours ago, Shad said:

Also Ashlee Mundy who was riding at kurow,

 

[Guest CrossCodes]

There was also  Rebecca Black who died in a fall at Riverton in 2016, coincidentally a fall that Moseley was also involved in. 
 

[Joe Bloggs]

If Centaur  is correct re his statement he heard Ellis say what he did, then 'Big Dave'' needs to apologise, he may have been taken out of context, or Centaur may have misheard, but if Ellis did say that, well it's beyond comprehension.......