Gammalite

Well some have said here the Punter is most important, and animal welfare too, I admire that. and as a Punter I was very impressed with Opie getting that runner home at Ellerslie. Yes he broke a current rule (and was punished according to current protocol) and Thomass has it as the crime of the century. He was trying to win the race.. and Did too. Some are screaming DISQUALIFY , jockey not counting properly. What if ANOTHER jockey had 6 slaps before the 100m peg ?? same charge? disqualify too ? ye old horse come back to scale , feeling no different , than any others in the race. Saying one is punished more than another because of a few more whip strikes? They can't count. so makes no difference if jockeys DO count. Who are you trying to please ? yourself , the horse or the punter? (Punters were HAPPY , the 3-1 ON shot Amarelinha won R8 Ellerslie!! excellent result for them) The horse not happy anyway 5, 10, 15 , 20? a whipping is a whipping ??? Chief says throwing it away is giving in to the activists. (looking to ban racing altogeather) I think Not the case , as throwing whips away can only lift racing perception , and we can all demonstrate to the newbies what an exciting product it is. without the whip even causing all these problems. Might need more Blinkers instead Chief lol......... Fancy race winning champion jockeys getting called cheats

Even though technically an apt description, This really LAPS OVER into the 'trying to Win' territory. In a race , jockeys and drivers (harness) are Paid to try and win that race. The punting public, The Stewards, everyone ....... DEMAND that you do your best to obtain the Best possible finishing position. Often you are Scrapping that hard you break the racing rules , pushing out, cutting off, squeeeeezing everything you can from your mount, (as Opie did with the case in hand) Not EVER ONCE did I think I was 'cheating'. You ride the boundaries of infringement in any sport (cycling ,etc) to Obtain the Best Possible Result. In Racing, your description to me fits the calculated 'Preplanned 'attempts at best position. i.e administering illegal substances, etc and also calculated 'Preplanned 'attempts to not try (as in a fixed race punt , etc) The Horse cannot possibly distinguish between 10 slaps or 20 . so either whip or no whip is the ONLY answer. regarding horse welfare, and public perception of racing. Why do jockeys have to learn to count ??? So to not be a cheat ??? what a lot of rubbish. poor opie. quite inappropriate i reckon. great ride !

In that case, my conspiracy theory , is that Brodster and Thomass are somehow related.

Have raced several kiwis purchased through John Devlin (R.I.P) and the South Auckland Bloodstock Agency back before children days, and I actually feel quite bad about it. So many good horses from NZ sold off to Aus over the years (planeloads over the years) leading to the ALLstars having nearly all the best stock left behind to race in NZ, and therefore dominating . Don't feel good that I was contributing towards that, and the small numbers left racing now in faster class. So NO WAY would I buy Spitfire and deprive the locals there in NZ, the chance to see the mighty beast in action.

Purple Patch. beats long barren patches.

Not quite true Thomass , it takes quite a serious breach to Relegate in a race, more likely a fine or suspension , like Opie got for his offence, would be the penalty. (causing tightening , etc) Horses taking the line of another late in the race might draw a relegation , if costing the other a chance of finishing in a higher position. just as likely to be a horse fault as rider /driver too. Are you Trying to be Clueless ?? Your knowledge seems limited??? so that is not EXACTLY the same at all. Speaking of the sulky, the 2nd leading Trainer in Australia (Jack Butler in QLD) has his terrific young daughter Chloe out suspended for next 2 weeks , from a third whip violation in 50 days is the rule. I would think Chloe could modify her style at being only 20 years of age approx , as Change is/was hard to do for Drivers / Riders that have been in 100's and thousands of races trying their guts out to Win. You calling Opie 'Cheat' is just part of your Modus Operandi. Are you finding it hard to change from it? Bit like Opie finding it hard to change from winning races? Opie has gone around a few times so he KNOWS what is required to Win . and does his absolute Best to achieve it.

'Animals don't think like humans ' that is what activists should be told. A million chooks in a giant shed are pretty happy as are with their mates, getting a big feed, and a drink. no drama. The greyhounds Love to Chase !! I've no problem with it. The dogs are almost dancing with excitement ! what a great thing the humans have brought to them. The racehorses !! bred to run ! they love it. I worked with horses for years , then vets, easy to see which horses were better looked after and enjoying life. Yeah !!! the last 200m of a race is tough , but it is for all of us !! hahaha

Hahaha yeah he loves to call Cheat hahaha Lucky he doesn't play Poker lol.... Opie far from a Cheat. What a great rider! I was thoroughly impressed with that win . good try by Grylls too. Great racing picked apart for not much reason. (a few 'extra' slaps) my guess is Horses Can't Count , so 10 or 20 makes no difference IMO, either some or none ? that way horse is up on the play of the day ?? hahahaha

They still all have to kneel at the beginning of every EPL football match (watched by millions) so that is pretty loud. I'm hoping that Doesn't Have to happen in AFL next week. I must say that I KNOW that some need a little whip use towards the end of a race. (Thomass even knows that but won't admit it. I used a whip every race I was in. You don't run anywhere by just hoping , althought that would be nice. Full points to Oppie from me, employed and paid to try and win the race , And he did !! then punished hahahah. Likewise as Thomass and Nomates says , the Horses feel the 'consequences' of this trying to win. AND the public sees the whip being used whether 10, 20, or 30 times . WTF!! horses can't count , nor can public Just Stipes and jockeys, and BOAY (lol) either have whip or not , I'm happy either way. Horses don't HOLD GRUDGES , lol......

Very well put Nomates, and I would be certain with your years of experience you had/ have total empathy where required for your horses and indeed still show these days , for all current horses. The 'public perception climate' regarding the debate for horses welfare is paramount for the racing industry. as you have argued and quite correctly too, as many young folk don't have the horse knowledge you or I do. Thomass is 100% for horse welfare, you Chief and I know horses are looked after like Kings horses, when in training generally, and fed, brushed , treated, excercised and anything we can do for their welfare is Important. Alas at the END of a Race they find a few moments of 'hardship' as Flat to the boards, Peddle to the metal, engine screaming at highest revs possible ...... to get a result and Win That Race. Public SEE the finish of a race , so to me Total Hits is a FALLACY. they just see a whip, The horse just sees a whip. They're not counting strikes like Stewards, jockeys or us. So they can fiddle with these whip strike numbers like Thomass has through this thread (and get nowhere) , OR we just throw it out and move on. I guess horses that need more than Hands and Heals at the end of a race will have to move on too. Such a tough one ??? the horse Gammalite had 16 Group 1 wins and 94 wins. would of been only a fraction of that without a whip. probably No group 1' wins at all. I know you and Horace have said , yeah still carry whip , but How Will that Change Public Perception?

In the G3 Sunline Vase AMARELINHA got there for the win because of a well calculated and a 'great balance late' ride from a leading jockey. I was watching on TV and noticed nothing of the whipping from the TV angle provided . Looked to all appearances a great jockey getting a 3-1 ON pop home with a great ride , great effort by horse, and bliss for the Punters. Of course from the head-on stewards Film you could see it all clearly. (Oppies whip use) You take the race off that WINNER, and the industry is stuffed ! I wouldn't bother anymore, and at the moment I live off the punt. Yes indeed , there's always a deafening roar made by miniority groups, sex, religion, race or politics. I guess everyone wants to be different. I do agree with examples given by yourself , and Freda , and nomates and my children about the image of racing regarding animal abuse. Only answer seems no whips. happening one day I guess.

The reward is very good too, (winning the race) I thought both jockeys did what they thought was best to get the best result in the heat of Battle. was a small margin. A rule was broken and a penalty given. I see No problem . Same thing happens with lots of other 'Offences' that can effect the result of a race as well . (not keeping straight , etc) Even if the Thomass is right and the offence is deemed 'Serious enough' to relegate or disqualify because of Whip Overuse or excessive use , WHERE does IT all STOP? What if the rider on the Derby or Auckland Cup winner (or any winner or placegetter) gave his SIXTH WHACK 120m Out ??? that IS breaking the same rule ? Jockey and every Punter in the country looking at slow motion replay, trying to count the whip strikes ??? Jockey insists he was trying to count to five or thought he was at the 100m point. Still have to take the race off him Thomass, as same as Oppie crime. and the Nation in dismay and shock after. VERY very hard to disqualify someone with these dodgy rules .

Haha yes the CONSTELLATION CUP now safely in NZ hands (probably because you are a STAR Karrots) lol. The royal family should of kept Harry under wraps and away from the American girls. They lost a King once, (Edward) who Abdicated and ran off to France with an American chick. Perhaps Harry doesn't care as brother William and little nephew George are heirs to the throne anyway. Doubt the Purdon name is in any Disrepute? unless of course you read BOAY too much ? hahahaha.......

Of course !! It is International Women's Day today so I put it down to that . The Diamonds renamed Zirconia !!! lol. AND the Aussie boys PLAYED LIKE GIRLS and lost the 20/20 Cricket Final at Wellington yesterday !!!lol ... lemons !! AND Majestic Man beat up the Aussie trotters again !!! lol. Although our best Pink GALAHs is a girl. AND Mach Shard won the G1 at Menagle beating up on the locals for NZ. The lovely Katrina Purdon is an owner though, so doing her bit for the girls getting the Big races too. p.s (well done NZ in those 4 events, too good! )

Bloke would need the track rating to be a dead 4 or better in that case, lol

Perfect ! Mach Shard and Star Gallaria 1st and 2nd easily . Balraj (could of stayed on fence early) and along with 4th stable horse Bright Energy being used as the LEAD OUT TRAIN like a cycling team at the Tour De France !!!!!! Just magic to watch. Carted The 2 NZers into beautifully ! well done Team McCarthy , just as good an exhibition as what the Allstars and Dunns can produce.

hahahaha .... Gammalite quick to point out "Good things come to those who wait" No-one told Tony that in the Derby last night lol....... GOOD Fortune Favours the Brave ? lol............ " All bad fortune is conquered by endurance ? lol..........

There's a good saying that Gammalite lives by too. "Winners Are Grinners" lol

Tony was playing CONVOY by CWMcCall , a great old tune , to get some motivation for the Derby. with lyrics like "Big Ben this here's a rubber duck , I'm about to put the hammer down" " l" so we crashed the gate do'in ninety-eight and we let that fucker roll .... ten four"

Chief , what happened to the Night racing at this venue ? Auckland a large city so people must go there to enjoy horses? or did the Trainers do the 'sulk' and not go there? Auckland weather mild most of year so should be ok. Moonie Valley , Cranbourne, Canterbury popular Friday nights in Oz. Hard on jockeys I guess? those riding features on Sat would be 'doing it tough' I guess.

Very 'Small' betting on that race.?? I wouldn't touch it with your money. lol... Ben YOLE does that in Tasmania EVERY WEEK, stacks a field with 6-8 runners every week, never a feature race though. Leading Trainer in Australia ??? 44 wins from 500 starters since JAN 1. absolute disgrace. I wrote to Tas harness a few times saying , "What a JOKE' not a hope in the world you could bet on those races. At least ALLSTARS had some rivals they still had to beat? and did it well too !!!!! Do something about it .

stuff the dogs lol, I'm Bleating about a Very relevant topic that I admire fully. There has been lots of criticism about Team driving in NZ harness , and costing poor punters their chance, etc.... I say Rubbish , with Team driving your odds are GREATLY INCREASED of winning . PlanA , PlanB to beat your MAIN OPPONENTS. everybody knows this but won't admit it. So Lets take a look at some NZers Tonight in Race 5 Menangle (A Group 1 FFA worth 100k) wouldn't you think that the 4 McCarthy runners will work it to run the placings??? Star Gallaria, and Mach Shard recently arrived from NZ, all you guys know well, and TURN IT UP driven by the McCarthy Dad.??? so he'll be helping too !!!!! will be great. If they can't beat the OTHER 5 runners with some TEAM DRIVING I'll be 'bleating well disappointed' !!! hahahahaa

What a wonderful Driving exhibition by the 'Teams' last night. Race 2 Addington saw Team Dunn work the race beautifully and run easy Quinella. they had 3 of the 6 runners. Race 10 at Alex Park saw the Team Telfer (five of the 8 runners ) get the FIRST 4 !!by a great tactical display (that saw poor Zac Butcher on their MAIN OPPONENT ,finish Way out the back. !! Amazing! reminds you of the 10/10 exhibition by ALLSTARS in the AUCKLAND CUP on Dec 31st. Perfection at work !! And Contrary to what people say with the Absolute Rubbish about 'Horses not running on their merits.' Team driving HELPS THEM ALL MORE WITH CHANCE of winning than NOT, because of the help you are getting from Stablemates (HUGE ADVANTAGE demonstrated successfully many times by ALLSTARS) AND the inconvenience (and loss) caused to the MAIN OPPONENT in each of these 3 races, by the perfect team co-ordination. !!! excellent NZ teamwork !!! e.g Copy That (AKLD cup) AJWhitesocks (R2 last night Addington) and Captain Nemo R10 Akld last night) Can't wait to see what Team McCarthy can come up with in the $1million Miracle Mile tonight !! (3 of the 8 runners) Exciting stuff !!!

Apologies NOT Maurice , It was ZAC BUTCHER on Captain Nemo that got the Heave Ho, in the death you go , Heave Ho out 3 wide you go .... lalala lol....... poor bugger. Team work at it's best !! fantastic.

Absolutely great tactics by the 5 stable runners in this one . Well played !! Maurice McKendry will be having nightmares ALL week , about this race. lol......... pushed out 3 wide from the death seat no less, a lap out. (very aggressive their AGH you beast, to Help the other Stable-mates !! lol ) Perfect Mr Telfer !! great team driving and First 4 is the result !!! exceptional work .