Will Coronavirus be the Death Knell of NZ Racing Industry?

[Chief Stipe]

49 minutes ago, JJ Flash said:

Just like any business unless the Government offers assistance then  the payout can only go one way unless a left field solution offers itself

Why would the Government offer the Racing Industry assistance when it already provides negative revenue to them?  The "left field" solution will be to force clubs to sell up to support the industry.

53 minutes ago, JJ Flash said:

I'm sure that cost cuts are well underway at RITA and that just like other businesses redundancies will occur,

Surely you are taking the piss?  When have we seen any cost cutting at the NZRB/RITA?  Given we have much the same old crew in charge at Board Level (seems to be a revolving door) what is going to change?

The fact is RITA and previous iterations thereof have pissed the industry reserves away on stakes increases without doing any structural changes except nearly bankrupt the TAB with a software upgrade.  Why should the Government help?

There isn't even any justification now that the local racing club is an integral part of the the local community.

[Reefton]

4 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

The TAB's revenues will like most businesses be vastly reduced as a result of an external event which no one could have predicted. Just like any business unless the Government offers assistance then  the payout can only go one way unless a left field solution offers itself

I note the coaster is blaming all and sundry which im sure allows him to vent but what solutions  has he or any others offered under these circumstances. I'm sure that cost cuts are well underway at RITA and that just like other businesses redundancies will occur,

 

Greg

What have you ever offered?  The two simple solutions are to attack the excessive cost structure of the TAB and reduce stakes(and the inherent subsidies paid to the bludger big Clubs)  to reflect the reality of current turnovers.  Stop worrying about the Breeders who rule the industry via having the Minister in their pocket.  And in lieu of the stakes make race entries free 

The removal of NZ's international status is a certainty(sooner or later) and they know it.   While I should be sad at that inevitability these pricks are doing their best to root the industry via their puppet so I will have no sympathy

[All The Aces]

On the basis of what has been announced today (no gathering of 500 or more people) It seems if meetings are going ahead then they will be meetings run without the public, owners etc. 

If a jockey tests positive to the virus then I assume that all jockeys will have to self - isolate which will mean no racing at all. It would make sense to me to isolate jockeys to their respective North island / South Island bases and stop jockeys riding in both islands. That way you would have two separate pools of riders and if one group has a positive the other group could still race rather than shutting down the whole country. .  

[Freda]

Good thought.....however, our industry has in recent times been reactive, not procative.  Unless such measures are imposed from outside, I dont see it happening.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Freda

[JJ Flash]

14 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

The "left field" solution will be to force clubs to sell up to support the industry.

You and others are seemingly obsessed with track selloffs. They can but probably wont occur if you actually read the process which the likes of NZTR will have to go through to access such funds . No one under the rules of natural justice can just take assets no matter who you are. further you have to convince a Polly or 2 as well , good luck with that

 

14 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

When have we seen any cost cutting at the NZRB/RITA?  Given we have much the same old crew in charge at Board Level

Factually incorrect  Chief .The RITA board is completely different from the previous motley NZRB board led by the useless Glenda. As for cost cuts my sources tell me approximately 5%  have  or are in pipeline already. I suspect McKenzie and co will be lifting that percentage at every opportunity now that Convid 19 has arrived. Their income must decline, its just by how much as they seek to source product to substitute for the likes of products they offer eg Sports and  Racing when that falls in a heap with isolation events.

Just my thoughts and im sure you and other swill have counter arguements

 

Greg

Edited March 16, 2020 by JJ Flash

[Mark D]

So this is what happens when you spend all your reserves.  $3.8m loss on Bonus Bets - these guys are incompetent but we already knew that

ttps://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120423822/coronavirus-tab-in-crisis-over-sports-cancellations

[JJ Flash]

37 minutes ago, Mark D said:

So this is what happens when you spend all your reserves.  $3.8m loss on Bonus Bets - these guys are incompetent but we already knew that

ttps://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120423822/coronavirus-tab-in-crisis-over-sports-cancellations

Keep up Mark. This is from the old brigade , Allen and co. Could all this be linked to the sudden and quiet departure of the previous CFO and thus  this might just be the tip of iceberg. If it was me id have the Forensic boys and girls doing a lot of work on the financials of TAB.

 

Greg

[curious]

22 minutes ago, JJ Flash said:

Keep up Mark. This is from the old brigade , Allen and co. Could all this be linked to the sudden and quiet departure of the previous CFO and thus  this might just be the tip of iceberg. If it was me id have the Forensic boys and girls doing a lot of work on the financials of TAB.

 

Greg

NO. This error occured under the auspices of the current RITA board. The buck stops there.

[Mark D]

I'm up.  The names may change but the story remains the same.

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Mark D

[Freda]

As a realist has already said....the C.V fallout will be used as an excuse to justify their incompetence.

[Chief Stipe]

Speaking of CV(s) Freda - I've posted many times before on BOAY - "HOW the HELL does Glenn Saville GM of Betting and Product keep keeping his job?"  Has he got pictures of Winston riding a goat or something?

His CV is suspect - I've been told many many times that his history in wagering is suspect BEFORE he was signed up at the TAB.  His main experience has been in the financial sector primarily superannuation.  Of which the latter I bet he has a good deal!  

[Chief Stipe]

On 17/03/2020 at 8:40 AM, JJ Flash said:

Factually incorrect  Chief .The RITA board is completely different from the previous motley NZRB board led by the useless Glenda.

I suggest you go online and check their bio's Flash.  McKenzie has been floating around for years.  What did he do at NZTR?

Dawson - still don't know why she is there and she has been floating around racing for years.  Probably there because of her connection with sport.

Birnie on the board since 2017 so part of Glenda's motley crew.  Like Dawson his career has been more to do with Sport than Racing.

Stove - Pukekohe Park - well Pukekohe racing has hardly been a shining star.  Would have been better to get the President from Reefton!

McDonald - was it 8 years as Chair of the JCA?

Sir Peter Vela - hard to knock his contribution to racing.  However his primary motivation is the breeding industry and I don't think the big breeders have served the racing part of the industry well.  The NZRB has always been hugely influenced by them.

Now the first thing this Board did was commit to squandering the last of our reserves on maintaining the stakes promise.  That was a huge mistake BEFORE Covid-19.

[Chief Stipe]

On 17/03/2020 at 8:40 AM, JJ Flash said:

As for cost cuts my sources tell me approximately 5%  have  or are in pipeline already. I suspect McKenzie and co will be lifting that percentage at every opportunity now that Convid 19 has arrived.

RITA's first budget for the 2019/20 year had 0% reduction in costs.  Given they were already living beyond their means regardless of Covid-19 THAT budget should have signalled huge cuts.

 

On 17/03/2020 at 8:40 AM, JJ Flash said:

Their income must decline, its just by how much as they seek to source product to substitute for the likes of products they offer eg Sports and  Racing when that falls in a heap with isolation events.

I don't think Table Tennis matches in Moscow and the Ukraine will save turnover.

What I'd do:

1. Lay-off all the Bookies - they have nothing to do and the new betting system was supposed to do it for them;
2. Cut Management salaries by at least half - that brings them back to what they should be and they're hardly going to run off and find other jobs at the moment.  Anyway it isn't as if we need their institutional knowledge;
3. Tell the RIU that they don't need 33 full-time and 85 part-time employees and that they have to get by on half the 6.8m RITA pays them.  Plus the highly paid betting analyst doesn't need THREE cadets!;
4. Use Covid-19 to get out of some of the stupid commingling agreements - no point subsidising OZ racing.
5. Lobby on behalf of the 30,000 workers in the industry (I think that figure is grossly overstated but everyone believes it so why not use it) for the business and wage subsidies that are being offered.  

What I wouldn't do:

1. Centralise racing - the industry is going to need every bit of goodwill it can get going forward.  Centralisation shifts the costs to industry workers.  RITA suck it up. 
2. Ask the Government for a direct handout. The public don't give a shit about racing at the moment - they are more focussed on stocking up on toilet paper (why don't you just shower after having a 2?);
3. Enforce stupid ill thought out rules.  Co-ordinate closely with the three codes so they are all singing off the same songsheet!
4. ....

Anyone got anything to add?

[Kopia]

The lifeblood of racing ( gallops ) are horses. And owners to pay for them. Whatever takes place in the near future, and longer term, its pretty obvious that stakes are not going to increase; if anything they'll go down and the latest stuff up by the TAB ( as I posted earlier )is a harbinger of things to come. So costs to the owners have to be reduced. Unpalatable as it will be I think riding fees have to come down-better to have a job riding at a bit less per ride than no job at all!..nomination/acceptance fees scrapped, vets and trainers are going to have to scale back their charges...even if this virus disappeared tomorrow, the industry will still be in the crapper. 

I agree that a large number of staff at TAB/RIU/NZTR have to go.  Thats a no brainer. So many people who do not contribute anything. 

I'm working on more....

[Chief Stipe]

Thinking about it a bit more.  Centralising now would be the worst thing to do.  At least with spread out racing you have smaller groups of people meeting less frequently.  If I see anyone quote Hong Kong as a positive example I'll puke!  They have a regime that enables them to control things.

I don't want to make this political but my warning is not only watch what RITA try to do to nationalise everything but watch what the Government is doing.  The have put a little clause in their market rate loan (actually more than market rate - who pays 8% nowadays) that allows them to re-nationalise our airline.

[JJ Flash]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I suggest you go online and check their bio's Flash.  McKenzie has been floating around for years.  What did he do at NZTR?

Dawson - still don't know why she is there and she has been floating around racing for years.  Probably there because of her connection with sport.

Birnie on the board since 2017 so part of Glenda's motley crew.  Like Dawson his career has been more to do with Sport than Racing.

Stove - Pukekohe Park - well Pukekohe racing has hardly been a shining star.  Would have been better to get the President from Reefton!

McDonald - was it 8 years as Chair of the JCA?

Sir Peter Vela - hard to knock his contribution to racing.  However his primary motivation is the breeding industry and I don't think the big breeders have served the racing part of the industry well.  The NZRB has always been hugely influenced by them.

Now the first thing this Board did was commit to squandering the last of our reserves on maintaining the stakes promise.  That was a huge mistake BEFORE Covid-19.

Rita Board is still different from old NZRB,Birnie the exception , but as your the site owner and we are here at your convenience there is not much point in carrying this debate on.

They were all put there by Min of Racing to carry out Messara report and introduce a new fit for purpose Racing act. Most will be gone by end of June to be replaced by new board- you should chuck your names forward.

 

Greg

Edited March 20, 2020 by JJ Flash

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Kopia said:

The lifeblood of racing ( gallops ) are horses. And owners to pay for them. Whatever takes place in the near future, and longer term, its pretty obvious that stakes are not going to increase; if anything they'll go down and the latest stuff up by the TAB ( as I posted earlier )is a harbinger of things to come. So costs to the owners have to be reduced. Unpalatable as it will be I think riding fees have to come down-better to have a job riding at a bit less per ride than no job at all!..nomination/acceptance fees scrapped, vets and trainers are going to have to scale back their charges...even if this virus disappeared tomorrow, the industry will still be in the crapper. 

I agree that a large number of staff at TAB/RIU/NZTR have to go.  Thats a no brainer. So many people who do not contribute anything. 

I'm working on more....

Plenty been saying this about stakes for a long while, not sure why owners think they are racing for $30k in a $30k race when in a decent sized field they are contributing probably nearly a 1/4 of the dosh in R65 and above. Its absolutely stupidity how can you blame everyone at every organisation when owners just continuously put up with this scenario and stand up for themselves better, the noms and acceptances don't make the racing product any better it just looks good to the uninitiated.

[The Centaur]

On ‎16‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 4:16 PM, JJ Flash said:

The TAB's revenues will like most businesses be vastly reduced as a result of an external event which no one could have predicted.

 

Greg

That may be true but so many businesses have failed to insulate against any downturn. I vividly remember the empty restaurants in the early nineties where there was only a fraction of the number that exist now and wondered what would happen  if there was just a slight hiccup. Already I'm seeing shuttered up shops and for lease signs.

This is going to get pretty ugly unless a miracle vaccine comes along.

[The Centaur]

13 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

Keep up Mark. This is from the old brigade , Allen and co. Could all this be linked to the sudden and quiet departure of the previous CFO and thus  this might just be the tip of iceberg. If it was me id have the Forensic boys and girls doing a lot of work on the financials of TAB.

 

Greg

I don't know which forum but I raised the problem of auditing the TAB with all these so called promotions. I actually worked for the firm auditing the Wellington Racing Club (early seventies) and remember going through all the unclaimed tickets to see if someone from within was absconding with the winnings. That sounds oh so simple to what must be the case now.

This whole fixed odds era is riddled with problems.

[JJ Flash]

9 hours ago, The Centaur said:

This is going to get pretty ugly unless a miracle vaccine comes along.

Good point but alas nothing looks forthcoming in the near future.

Still if NZ racing is shut down as has occurred in a lot of sport the TAB and NZ punters may well be grateful for US,Korean and Japanese racing

 

Greg

[billy connolly]

On 13/03/2020 at 10:26 PM, Shad said:

The media are creating the frenzy, sick of hearing about it

Agree with you, half the world are starving to death but we never hear a whisper about that epidemic.

Go to the slums of Calcutta or a third world country and see how the other half live. No sanitation, no running water and no fuckin hope but no-one gives a rats arse about these people.

The imbeciles have taken over the asylum.

[Murray Fish]

1 hour ago, billy connolly said:

The imbeciles have taken over the asylum.

leading to a promotion for you???? ?

[Freda]

On 20/03/2020 at 2:46 PM, JJ Flash said:

Rita Board is still different from old NZRB,Birnie the exception , but as your the site owner and we are here at your convenience there is not much point in carrying this debate on.

They were all put there by Min of Racing to carry out Messara report and introduce a new fit for purpose Racing act. Most will be gone by end of June to be replaced by new board- you should chuck your names forward.

 

Greg

As it has turned out,  they didn't introduce a ' fit for purpose'  Racing Act.    Quite the contrary,  to the point that the thing has had to be pretty much re-written.

And look at the hand-wringing pricks now,  wailing for yet another Govt. hand out.   Shockers.

[JJ Flash]

On 20/03/2020 at 8:54 AM, curious said:

NO. This error occured under the auspices of the current RITA board. The buck stops there.

I think you might find that is incorrect, but only the passage of time will determine it to be so

 

Greg

[JJ Flash]

54 minutes ago, Freda said:

As it has turned out,  they didn't introduce a ' fit for purpose'  Racing Act.    Quite the contrary,  to the point that the thing has had to be pretty much re-written.

And look at the hand-wringing pricks now,  wailing for yet another Govt. hand out.   Shockers.

I think you and others need to take on board what the minister wanted  put up in the latest Racing act. A master and servant  issue.

Frankly , some of the responses are quite bizarre. and show how dislocated the NZ racing community. Everyone is offering differing solutions , most of which are simply not attainable without significant cash injections. Would you and others prefer the status quo?

 

Greg