Riccarton. Blundered at start.

[Jenny]

There seem to be an awful lot of horses slipping as they leave the gates. According to the stipes report today, 15 blundered at the start and 9 began awkwardly. On Sat, 6 blundered at the start and 17 began awkwardly. It would be annoying for connections to travel from the N.I only to lose your chance at the start. 

[billy connolly]

Yes and when you take into account some of the very short margins at race end, getting away on terms is imperative especially from an inside draw.

IMO the old open starting stalls (without the overhead) were a superior machine to that of which is currently in use. There is also too much favouritism given to bad loaders, every horse should be loaded in its turn and the starter should be on his/her stand (with finger on trigger) well before the last horse loads.

[Freda]

6 hours ago, billy connolly said:

Yes and when you take into account some of the very short margins at race end, getting away on terms is imperative especially from an inside draw.

IMO the old open starting stalls (without the overhead) were a superior machine to that of which is currently in use. There is also too much favouritism given to bad loaders, every horse should be loaded in its turn and the starter should be on his/her stand (with finger on trigger) well before the last horse loads.

They are the same [ or similar ]  to the gates currently in use in Australia.   These ones are Australian made.   Bad loaders should be put in first [ JMO ]  so they don't have the others standing around for ages.  Unfortunately the numbers of barrier staff tend to preclude that happening, with 2 or maybe 3 requiring a handler up there aren't enough to manage the rest.

The 'blundering' at the start I find interesting.  A jockey resident at mine commented on horses slipping, although no mention in stipes report.  I have to wonder if the 38ml of irrigation applied after Saturday's very firm track had anything to do with that?

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

They are the same [ or similar ]  to the gates currently in use in Australia.   These ones are Australian made.   Bad loaders should be put in first [ JMO ]  so they don't have the others standing around for ages.  Unfortunately the numbers of barrier staff tend to preclude that happening, with 2 or maybe 3 requiring a handler up there aren't enough to manage the rest.

The 'blundering' at the start I find interesting.  A jockey resident at mine commented on horses slipping, although no mention in stipes report.  I have to wonder if the 38ml of irrigation applied after Saturday's very firm track had anything to do with that?

I thought horses don't slip at Riccarton?

[Freda]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I thought horses don't slip at Riccarton?

Wasn't in stipes report so obviously they don't. 

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

Wasn't in stipes report so obviously they don't. 

Just wonder Pam if it is not the starter's actions contributing to this.  That yelling 'Clear' before he pushes the button might well startle horses and make them stumble as they leave.  Of course the others shout 'watch your gates'.  I'm no expert but in the old days Ray Burgess and those guys just advised(obviously loudly) they had the all clear then pushed the button or pulled the string as the case may have been.  Don't want to be critical but perhaps try another warning technique?   Or do the jockeys prefer it the way it is?

Maybe there aren't mics that close in Aussie Singapore or Hong Kong but does not seem to be that yell there.

As for late loaders there ought to be a limit on the number of times you can load last.  Te Akau are master at making sure they load last and Kawi was another that always got favourable treatment.  They should load strictly in order inside to out possibly half and half(one to six and seven to twelve in a twelve horse field) at the same time.  It is very rare to see horses standing as long in Aus as they so often do here

 

 

[nomates]

45 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Don't want to be critical but perhaps try another warning technique?   Or do the jockeys prefer it the way it is?

The starter needs to yell something to wake up some of the jocks that have dozed off , many jocks miss the start not the horses as they are simply too busy looking around instead of concentrating on their mounts .

Also some horses i'm sure are slow simply because they have been standing in the gates soo long , god some races take forever to get the horses loaded .

[Joe Bloggs]

I'll tell you a little story, WD Skelton, IMO the best barrier jock I rode against, one day he drew next to me in 2, a field of about 24, he's got a bumper [cig] in his mouth, we spoke about nothing important if I remember but a little natter, as the last one came in he stubbed the cig out, wiped his mouth and the stater called out, ''all clear''....and we were off.......all clear.......Bill was very laid back, as was Bob.......but calling out all clear meant action time boys.....no gals back then.......somethings changed, as it does......I have no idea......literally.......Pam might ask her ex, he would know more I suspect.

[Freda]

10 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

I'll tell you a little story, WD Skelton, IMO the best barrier jock I rode against, one day he drew next to me in 2, a field of about 24, he's got a bumper [cig] in his mouth, we spoke about nothing important if I remember but a little natter, as the last one came in he stubbed the cig out, wiped his mouth and the stater called out, ''all clear''....and we were off.......all clear.......Bill was very laid back, as was Bob.......but calling out all clear meant action time boys.....no gals back then.......somethings changed, as it does......I have no idea......literally.......Pam might ask her ex, he would know more I suspect.

I noticed him at the track this morning, I'll ask him tomorrow if he's there.

[Freda]

2 hours ago, Reefton said:

Just wonder Pam if it is not the starter's actions contributing to this.  That yelling 'Clear' before he pushes the button might well startle horses and make them stumble as they leave.  Of course the others shout 'watch your gates'.  I'm no expert but in the old days Ray Burgess and those guys just advised(obviously loudly) they had the all clear then pushed the button or pulled the string as the case may have been.  Don't want to be critical but perhaps try another warning technique?   Or do the jockeys prefer it the way it is?

Maybe there aren't mics that close in Aussie Singapore or Hong Kong but does not seem to be that yell there.

As for late loaders there ought to be a limit on the number of times you can load last.  Te Akau are master at making sure they load last and Kawi was another that always got favourable treatment.  They should load strictly in order inside to out possibly half and half(one to six and seven to twelve in a twelve horse field) at the same time.  It is very rare to see horses standing as long in Aus as they so often do here

 

 

I agree, on one day recently the TV panned to Aus just after a Riccarton start, my god, the contrast was spectacular, all in, stood, gates opened and all jumped cleanly, hardly any noise at all.  One of those watching with me said, wow, that was quiet.

[All The Aces]

I spoke with a jockey yesterday and they mentioned that the horses were slipping on jumping. Interesting the stipes report uses the term "blunder" instead. 

[The Centaur]

19 hours ago, Jenny said:

There seem to be an awful lot of horses slipping as they leave the gates. According to the stipes report today, 15 blundered at the start and 9 began awkwardly. On Sat, 6 blundered at the start and 17 began awkwardly. It would be annoying for connections to travel from the N.I only to lose your chance at the start. 

Yeah good observations.

My take is that the hysterical scream from the starter has something to do with. The horse hears it and at the same time the noise of the gate totally mesmerises some of them. Why the starter has to yell "watch the gates" is beyond me. Hate to think what happens when the gates fail and the scream has already taken place. 

[Freda]

36 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

I spoke with a jockey yesterday and they mentioned that the horses were slipping on jumping. Interesting the stipes report uses the term "blunder" instead. 

Sounds better.

[Reefton]

21 minutes ago, The Centaur said:

Yeah good observations.

My take is that the hysterical scream from the starter has something to do with. The horse hears it and at the same time the noise of the gate totally mesmerises some of them. Why the starter has to yell "watch the gates" is beyond me. Hate to think what happens when the gates fail and the scream has already taken place. 

True enough.  My understanding with the old manual gates was the sharp blokes were watching the little lever the rope was attached to.  When it moved react quick

[Jenny]

11 hours ago, Freda said:

They are the same [ or similar ]  to the gates currently in use in Australia.   These ones are Australian made.   Bad loaders should be put in first [ JMO ]  so they don't have the others standing around for ages.  Unfortunately the numbers of barrier staff tend to preclude that happening, with 2 or maybe 3 requiring a handler up there aren't enough to manage the rest.

The 'blundering' at the start I find interesting.  A jockey resident at mine commented on horses slipping, although no mention in stipes report.  I have to wonder if the 38ml of irrigation applied after Saturday's very firm track had anything to do with that?

The irrigation possibly did have something to do with it although there were some slipping on the Saturday. Of course the irrigation had to be applied especially when Josh Parr was on t.v commenting on the firm Saturday track and how he felt his horses weren’t able to let down on it. 

[nomates]

A certain Mr Pitman might argue whether irrigation was required .

[Shad]

A few years back they loaded the horses in reverse order was a hokitika meeting, remember watching the race and thinking something did add up, only on coast, inside horses started on outside stalls, certainly won't happen there anymore. 

[Reefton]

54 minutes ago, Shad said:

A few years back they loaded the horses in reverse order was a hokitika meeting, remember watching the race and thinking something did add up, only on coast, inside horses started on outside stalls, certainly won't happen there anymore. 

What happened was because our gates had to cater for courses in both directions we had to have magnetic numbers on them.  They had not been changed and they loaded them inside out.  Easy mistake to make but I backed the winner who I was sure had drawn one and was surprised to hear the Commentator say jumped well from the outside.  I think that was that extraordinary day wasn't it?  Miscounted rounds and horses coming from 25 lengths last at the 400 to get up and win.  Wonderful entertainment but not a great look for NZ racing

[Reefton]

Just read the judicial report for yesterday at Riccarton and this 'blundering' problem seems to have been predominantly at the 1400m mark.  One race there was about five of them who supposedly blundered.

Wouldn't you think the stipes would hop in a car and go round to inspect the starting point given it happened to so many?  Hardly instills punting confidence to see the same thing happening so many times at the same place(not that I am much of a punter any more)

 

 

[Freda]

There was a deputation of officials inspecting the track yesterday morning.

[Shad]

7 hours ago, Reefton said:

What happened was because our gates had to cater for courses in both directions we had to have magnetic numbers on them.  They had not been changed and they loaded them inside out.  Easy mistake to make but I backed the winner who I was sure had drawn one and was surprised to hear the Commentator say jumped well from the outside.  I think that was that extraordinary day wasn't it?  Miscounted rounds and horses coming from 25 lengths last at the 400 to get up and win.  Wonderful entertainment but not a great look for NZ racing

Yes I remember that day, had the joy of backing that winner that was tailed off with a lap to run, a horse called our spice at 60s fixed odds, trained by Don Fuge, always supported the coast meetings, and from memory trained a grand national winner in stormy night, was many years ago, 70s maybe.

[Freda]

Not sure if Don is still with us, the other great Coast supporter and all-round good guy, Frankie Stammers, sadly, isn't.

From acting crossing-keeper, farrier, trackwork rider, there was nothing Frankie wouldn't do to help someone.   One year, a group of us was at Woodstock  [ a little settlement a wee way out of Hokitika ] to listen to the regular Sunday night jam session.   Any musician who wanted to have a go could get up and entertain the listeners.

Om this occasion, a local dashed into the pub to announce that a car had run off the road and was stuck in a ditch.  Off went Frankie in his elderly Escort and duly towed the hapless driver out of the ditch and back on the road.  The guy turned out to be an American concert pianist.  He had been tikki-touring around back-country NZ, on his own, having some time out.  Once suitably refreshed, he sat down at the piano in the bar and enthralled us all.  He was awesome.

[Reefton]

5 hours ago, Freda said:

There was a deputation of officials inspecting the track yesterday morning.

the horse might have bolted(or perhaps blundered) by then Pam?

[Joe Bloggs]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

Not sure if Don is still with us, the other great Coast supporter and all-round good guy, Frankie Stammers, sadly, isn't.

From acting crossing-keeper, farrier, trackwork rider, there was nothing Frankie wouldn't do to help someone.   One year, a group of us was at Woodstock  [ a little settlement a wee way out of Hokitika ] to listen to the regular Sunday night jam session.   Any musician who wanted to have a go could get up and entertain the listeners.

Om this occasion, a local dashed into the pub to announce that a car had run off the road and was stuck in a ditch.  Off went Frankie in his elderly Escort and duly towed the hapless driver out of the ditch and back on the road.  The guy turned out to be an American concert pianist.  He had been tikki-touring around back-country NZ, on his own, having some time out.  Once suitably refreshed, he sat down at the piano in the bar and enthralled us all.  He was awesome.

Thanks for the memories, we can but remember, those glorious, riotous and happy memories, now it's all about the money.

[Freda]

20 hours ago, Freda said:

I noticed him at the track this morning, I'll ask him tomorrow if he's there.

Wasn't there.  But one gentleman who was, was former trainer/jockey Ali Robinson.

Ali and his wife have a new home in the Ryman retirement village, at the top end of the six furlong chute.

He often wanders down to see the horses and watch trackwork.  I was standing at the crossing watching one work as he hove to, muttering.  All that slipping, he said, bloody grass too long.  It's so long it lies flat and the mower can't cut it.