Riccarton. Blundered at start.

[Reefton]

On 14/11/2022 at 12:49 PM, Freda said:

Yeah.....have to agree with both parties here.

Sure, It isn't the fault of NZTR if clubs choose to ignore their guidelines.   

However there never seem to be any consequences.  If a small/provincial/country club 'ignored guidelines'  they would most likely be asked to show why they should be allowed a licence to run races.

And there has to be considered the suitability of such 'advice'.

There was, until recently, a 'venue inspector' who was ostensibly responsible for all the tracks country-wide.  It doesn't take much thought to realise that one size doesn't fit all.   Advice pertaining to Ruakaka will not suit Invercargill, or Riverton.

Even in a geographical area considered ' one district' i.e. the Coast,  what works for Kumara will most certainly not work for Reefton.   So you may have, in those situations, local club track men, whether volunteers or otherwise, taking not a blind bit of notice and with plenty of justification.

Dead right.  You cannot apply the same logic at Riccarton and the Coast when it comes to track prep.  Our guys know what they are doing and the national track man (Garry Foskett) knew that. 

[Doomed]

Amazing stuff. Other than the fact it is quite poorly written, it is also quite aggressive. Sets a bit of a precedent though. Sounds like heads will roll at all levels, including NZTR, if there are any future cock-ups.

[Freda]

When a regional track advisor is the one who has presided over such cock up, whose head rolls then?

Do we seriously think that NZTR will 'hold its hand up'  ?

[Special Agent]

No.

[curious]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

When a regional track advisor is the one who has presided over such cock up, whose head rolls then?

Do we seriously think that NZTR will 'hold its hand up'  ?

If they don't lead by example we are no further ahead. They should already be doing exactly what they expect club CEOs to do in these situations - "that a thorough review of their people and processes is undertaken immediately and that everybody responsible for presenting a track is clear on the role they play"

Regional track advisors should be at the centre of that.

[curious]

If the regional track advisor played a role in the CJC debacle, then he should have been called into Sharrock's or at least Balcombe's office by now. If not, then the above missive to clubs isn't worth the paper it's written on as you suggest Freda.

[curious]

This suggests NZTR IS serious though wrt the clubs. They are withholding race day funding.

As previously advised, NZTR is awaiting individual reports from the respective Clubs and the RIB before making any further decisions regarding Club Funding for these racedays. NZTR will also put in place additional protocols, which will be communicated after the Regional Track Manager Meeting on Monday, to further support Clubs going forward to ensure surfaces are being prepared in line with the Track Preparation Guidelines and that any issues are identified at the earliest possible opportunity. As per the recent Club Circular the responsibility to prepare a safe racing surface remains the responsibility of the Club, NZTR encourage the Clubs to utilise the resources of the Regional Track Managers for support, advice and the regional Track Equipment that is also available.

Edited November 17, 2022 by curious

[Chief Stipe]

11 hours ago, Reefton said:

Our guys know what they are doing and the national track man (Garry Foskett) knew that. 

Your "guys know what they are doing" because they only race 3 times a year and have next to zero horses training on the track.  Not  bloody hard to keep a track in good condition under that scenario!

[curious]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

Your "guys know what they are doing" because they only race 3 times a year and have next to zero horses training on the track.  Not  bloody hard to keep a track in good condition under that scenario!

None train on the course proper at Riccarton either.

[Huey]

16 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Your "guys know what they are doing" because they only race 3 times a year and have next to zero horses training on the track.  Not  bloody hard to keep a track in good condition under that scenario!

Hardly their fault Chief!

[Reefton]

19 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Your "guys know what they are doing" because they only race 3 times a year and have next to zero horses training on the track.  Not  bloody hard to keep a track in good condition under that scenario!

you would know

We also don't have a range of full time track staff nor do we get grants from NZTR to run a training facility nor do we earn huge amounts of track fees

And while I am on the word 'nor'  to my knowledge nor have we ever abandoned halfway through our raceday.  We did abandon our day ten or so years back but that was seven days ahead of time because we knew we had no hope.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Reefton

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Your "guys know what they are doing" because they only race 3 times a year and have next to zero horses training on the track.  Not  bloody hard to keep a track in good condition under that scenario!

Very true Chief. Perhaps much fairer to compare Riccarton to Flemington, Caulfield, Rosehill, Randwick, Morphettville etc. 

[billy connolly]

As the head poster on this thread alluded, approx 50 horses slipped (and lost their chance) at the start on the first two days and no remedial action was taken by stewards, track manager or Mills.

You don't need to be a track/turf expert to see that any recent moisture on a grass surface which lacks density and is too long will cause the grass to collapse and horses won't get traction which is exactly what occurred.

Horses shouldn't slip at the start and they should never slip galloping in a straight line at Riccarton in November.

 

[nomates]

Just now, Doomed said:

Very true Chief. Perhaps much fairer to compare Riccarton to Flemington, Caulfield, Rosehill, Randwick, Morphettville etc. 

Haha , compare Riccarton to Flemington . As Ken Kelso said , they had just finished racing at Flemington on Saturday , Tuesday , Thursday and Saturday , with plenty of rain on Cup day yet still presented a good track on the Saturday . 

So as he asked " if they can do it why can't we ? " , professionalism , that simple , we do everything like country yokals , with no accountability , unless your club happens to be one of the smaller ones , then all the bullies put the boot in .

I have said this for years , we need to run the industry Holistically , all for one and one for all , we are only a strong as our weakest club .

We need to stop running the industry for the benefit of a few precious clubs .

I look at the Levin racing club , who's big day is coming up next week , but is it really still a big day , not going on historical evidence , it is but a shadow of it's former self . Used to be what they now call an ICONIC race day , and i mean it was an ICONIC race day , one of the absolute best , but really noe it's just a step up from another Thursday race day . This was caused by bullying behaviour from NZTR and Race and a weak willed committee .

How many other great days have been punctured by this management .

Time to stop this and start looking at every club as having an important cog in the industry . 

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

you would know

We also don't have a range of full time track staff nor do we get grants from NZTR to run a training facility nor do we earn huge amounts of track fees

And while I am on the word 'nor'  to my knowledge nor have we ever abandoned halfway through our raceday.  We did abandon our day ten or so years back but that was seven days ahead of time because we knew we had no hope.

 

 

And another couple of 'nors'

nor does the Reefton Jockey Club get the guts of a million dollars worth of industry money lavished on it to splurge on stakes for one day then produce a substandard track for the said day

And nor would the Reefton Jockey Club say 'right we are refunding all the entry fees' but then basically beg people not to claim the refund.  I have to say that is a rather bizarre press release on behalf of the CJC.  I VERY much doubt anyone who was there for the actual racing would have any sympathy for them and the ones  who were there for the piss up probably didn't even notice there were no horses on the track so wouldn't care.  I would have just kept the money and if some individual whinged just refunded them their entry fee.

[KickintheKods]

Oh for fuck's sake you dickheads.

When we asked for one of your NZTR Regional Track Inspectors to give us the big tick before our upcoming Cup Day, we didn't expect this........

[nomates]

8 minutes ago, KickintheKods said:

Oh for fuck's sake you dickheads.

When we asked for one of your NZTR Regional Track Inspectors to give us the big tick before our upcoming Cup Day, we didn't expect this........

About sums it up .

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, nomates said:

Haha , compare Riccarton to Flemington . As Ken Kelso said , they had just finished racing at Flemington on Saturday , Tuesday , Thursday and Saturday , with plenty of rain on Cup day yet still presented a good track on the Saturday . 

 

Because Flemington have an annual maintenance plan that NZ would call a major renovation and every 4 years Flemington actually does major renovations.  I've actually posted the details of what they do on BOAY many times before.

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, billy connolly said:

You don't need to be a track/turf expert to see that any recent moisture on a grass surface which lacks density and is too long will cause the grass to collapse and horses won't get traction which is exactly what occurred.

 

But didn't they actually slip on the soil not the grass itself?  The grass was probably left long to cover the gaps (bad call) and to prevent the other issue that occurs when it gets too dry - the soil breaking up and horses racing in what one could only call their own generated dust, dirt and clod storm!

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Reefton said:

nor does the Reefton Jockey Club get the guts of a million dollars worth of industry money lavished on it to splurge on stakes for one day then produce a substandard track for the said day

 

But the point is it is easy for Reefton to present a racing surface when it is barely used either for race days or training.  The track manager at Riccarton (Awapuni, Trentham, Ellerslie as well) has been pushing shit up hill for years given he has fuck all to work with regardless of the money that might be available.  The soil and turf system is fucked and a major rebuild is required.  Good luck to the new centralised brains trust in trying to improve things.  They'd be better to race more at Timaru but no they need that capital for something else - most likely to subsidise stakes given the fall in revenue!

[Chief Stipe]

 

[Reefton]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

But the point is it is easy for Reefton to present a racing surface when it is barely used either for race days or training.  The track manager at Riccarton (Awapuni, Trentham, Ellerslie as well) has been pushing shit up hill for years given he has fuck all to work with regardless of the money that might be available.  The soil and turf system is fucked and a major rebuild is required.  Good luck to the new centralised brains trust in trying to improve things.  They'd be better to race more at Timaru but no they need that capital for something else - most likely to subsidise stakes given the fall in revenue!

Well if effing Riccarton needs renovation let effing Riccarton pay for it.

Whatever work we do we pay for ourselves but these big clubs have got their hands out all the time and after getting millions given to them they still produce shit surfaces

 

[nomates]

3 hours ago, nomates said:

professionalism

A word i used earlier in the day , 1st race at New Plymouth , 1400 0n a H8 , official time 1.24.26 , track down graded after race 1 to H9 .

I call bullshit , how can simple things like this not be done properly , i checked time straight away so i could ascertain how bad the track is , but that time clearly doesn't represent the true nature of the track .

C'mon , this is not difficult . 

[Reefton]

1 minute ago, nomates said:

A word i used earlier in the day , 1st race at New Plymouth , 1400 0n a H8 , official time 1.24.26 , track down graded after race 1 to H9 .

I call bullshit , how can simple things like this not be done properly , i checked time straight away so i could ascertain how bad the track is , but that time clearly doesn't represent the true nature of the track .

C'mon , this is not difficult . 

they might have been like Te Rapa that time - the gates might have been parked at the 1300m by mistake

[Joe Bloggs]

If NZTR had of listened to those who knew instead of those that didn't they would have laid Strathayr and had so much money left over for better stakes at the bottom end to encourage people to stay in racing and not sell......

We have so many great racks here, [OZ] strathayr bloody brilliant, we still lose race meetings on those tracks when we get wild weather, and torrential rain, but there are no slipping issues and the jocks and trainers love this surface.

As there is NO accountability in NZ, especially where racing is concerned as it's the best boys club on Gods earth, wouldn't it be lovely to find out how these AWT got to be the go to's...? and who won the tendering ? under freedom of information that should be readily available. 

Who were the actual decision makers? and why the fuck was Strathayr not the obvious answer?.........it beggars belief, and brings into question who had what to gain as it certainly wasn't the grass roots, solid industry participants that get up every morning and give their all for the game they love.