JJ Flash Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 46 minutes ago, Brodie said: Reality is that there must beheaps of owners that have been considering whether the benefits of racing a horse for a total loss is worth the effort! Thats been the case for 3 decades at least given the chances of recouping investment at a time when costs are constantly going up and stakes down/stagnant 48 minutes ago, Brodie said: Yes there will be many who will be saddened by the AllStars departure whether it be temporary or permanent and there will be many that will be pleased And we all know what side of that fence your on. Now they are gone are you going to spend up at sales?? I'm picking no 49 minutes ago, Brodie said: More owners are going to be getting a share of the pie on the big race days which is also a huge benefit to the harness industry. But will they be new owners or just ex All Star owners being trained by someone else?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 2 hours ago, mikeynz said: They had a good break during lockdown,never missed them to be honest. I was referring to the ABS by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Brodie said: I would much prefer to punt and watch races that were not dominated by one stable that were most likely fill the placings! The NZ TAB are probably going to be better off as well as there wont be as many punting on the shorties and having to pay out! I think with the punting as regards to Allstars and the short priced favourites the TAB just pays the same percentages of the hold No Matter who wins anyway, so no big deal to them. Short priced favourites are a Good thing for the TAB (If they Win) as the 'Winning Punters' are bound to return with more Bets. TAB loves it. The blokes punting against Allstars , probably do their cash in (quickly too lol) and then pack the shits and don't bet anymore in those races? seems the feeling I see in threads here. (OMG whats wrong with that 'Forbury' bloke? ) Just not a good idea to try and Punt against ALLSTARS in a feature race , as mostly just wasting your money , so is easy to see what you are saying, and that the Punters (and especially opposition Owners) are glad to have a break from all that, with the change that is approaching at end of year. I tried it once with $200 win bet on 'ex-pat kiwi' Aussie Tiger Tara, who got downed by The Fixer in the NZ Cup 2018, 2 years ago. Swore black and Blue to never punt against them ever again. So yes , your races will be more 'Open" now. and maybe you'll have a punt or enjoy a different result. I actually won't punt in them , as I thought it was great having only a handful of chances (usually the Allstars) and now will be too hard to pick .......lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrots Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 I can totally see both sides of debate. Hence I'm liking eveyone's comments lol. We could debate this on and on, here is the thing tho, its a done deal - it's over. It would be pleasing to see them get a well deserved send off in some way as a recognition for the time, energy, and amazing achievements and legacy they will leave. Moving forward it will be an interesting watch this space to see what happens ... PS Gammalite - 1 sentence in your last post did make me smile. Oh and I saw on Newshub someone stole a horse ambulance - rego 26R38 from Awapuni Racing Centre - spreading the word. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 hours ago, JJ Flash said: And we all know what side of that fence your on. Yet, as usual, you fail to recognise the praise Brodie has given the All Stars. Brodie has always seen the domination as detrimental which is a valid position to take but he balances that with his comments the other way so he is not as biased as you claim. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrots Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: Yet, as usual, you fail to recognise the praise Brodie has given the All Stars. Brodie has always seen the domination as detrimental which is a valid position to take but he balances that with his comments the other way so he is not as biased as you claim. Yes happy, I for 1 have appreciated Brodie pointing out this domination as potentially detrimental to all others. Anyway Im not going to debate it more as its the endgame. On another side note, watching the final Mana races, and put a fun bet on, as my position is to support the club today since they are back. And while I really like Aaron White and his commentary. Karrots is thinking, Karrots would prefer to eat something else than just Karrots. Why not J Teaz or someone else ... But that is a whole other subject and I understand the cuts made. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globederby12 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 4 hours ago, JJ Flash said: Thats been the case for 3 decades at least given the chances of recouping investment at a time when costs are constantly going up and stakes down/stagnant And we all know what side of that fence your on. Now they are gone are you going to spend up at sales?? I'm picking no But will they be new owners or just ex All Star owners being trained by someone else?? Probably right on all 3 points JJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globederby12 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 I see most on here have avoided the obvious point in "who" inherits the " spinning" machine and who will now stump up the expense of using it if the money dry's up from owners going elsewhere. At least in one respect there will not be so many horses growing "legs". It has been and is, a bone of contention in our syndicates circles. Now maybe the playing field will be levelled somewhat. I hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Usually, trainers only take a year off when charges are ahead🤔🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodlum Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 10 hours ago, globederby12 said: I see most on here have avoided the obvious point in "who" inherits the " spinning" machine and who will now stump up the expense of using it if the money dry's up from owners going elsewhere. At least in one respect there will not be so many horses growing "legs". It has been and is, a bone of contention in our syndicates circles. Now maybe the playing field will be levelled somewhat. I hope so. Did you read the letter to owners? Hardly a sabbatical as we know it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, globederby12 said: Probably right on all 3 points JJ. Thanks but not according Happy😉😉. There is a surprise Gammalites post summed things up pretty well re betting.outcomes Edited November 17, 2020 by JJ Flash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodlum Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Yep all the All Stars horse talent is suddenly going to get slower. Yeah right! The biggest beneficiaries will be Blair Orange and TIm Williams. Although it isn't clear that Mark and Natalie will be hanging up their race day driving just yet. LOL I see the All Stars UDR is back up to their average and climbing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 14 hours ago, globederby12 said: I see most on here have avoided the obvious point in "who" inherits the " spinning" machine and who will now stump up the expense of using it if the money dry's up from owners going elsewhere. At least in one respect there will not be so many horses growing "legs". It has been and is, a bone of contention in our syndicates circles. Now maybe the playing field will be levelled somewhat. I hope so. Given the rule changes to no spinning within a week of racing it cant surely be the issue. it it scientifically proven to be performance enhancing??I have not seen any evidence to say so So how can it be a bone of contention when its openly available to all stables. Also, i think you'll find its not the stables that have the spinning machines as you put it, that's all done in separate lab with resultant serum reintroduced by Vets as per new regs. If you remember a horse called Carabella, it was treated with spinning so that shows how long its been around 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 2 hours ago, JJ Flash said: Given the rule changes to no spinning within a week of racing it cant surely be the issue. it it scientifically proven to be performance enhancing??I have not seen any evidence to say so So how can it be a bone of contention when its openly available to all stables. Also, i think you'll find its not the stables that have the spinning machines as you put it, that's all done in separate lab with resultant serum reintroduced by Vets as per new regs. If you remember a horse called Carabella, it was treated with spinning so that shows how long its been around Yes, exactly right about Carabella, she was a top mare but these days that stable doesn't produce the winners like it once did? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Noodlum said: Yep all the All Stars horse talent is suddenly going to get slower. Yeah right! The biggest beneficiaries will be Blair Orange and TIm Williams. Although it isn't clear that Mark and Natalie will be hanging up their race day driving just yet. LOL I see the All Stars UDR is back up to their average and climbing. Yes. I had pointed out earlier the all stars were not performing at previous levels.I have a ratings system and it had been accurate for the all stars in recent months,but its accuracy went out the window in the last month or so for many of their horses. I don't know why,maybe i was rating them wrong,but i don't think so. Maybe they set their team to perform best closer to the big days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globederby12 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 6 hours ago, JJ Flash said: So how can it be a bone of contention when its openly available to all stables Available yes but not affordable for the less fiscally able. Its not a level playing field JJ, and HRNZ know it. Leave it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 8 hours ago, JJ Flash said: Given the rule changes to no spinning within a week of racing it cant surely be the issue. it it scientifically proven to be performance enhancing??I have not seen any evidence to say so So how can it be a bone of contention when its openly available to all stables. Also, i think you'll find its not the stables that have the spinning machines as you put it, that's all done in separate lab with resultant serum reintroduced by Vets as per new regs. If you remember a horse called Carabella, it was treated with spinning so that shows how long its been around hey jj if you have nothing to hide on your blood spinning why do you keep going on and on about it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 I think it will be interesting to see if the property is retained,or sold in the future. Obviously if it is sold there is no way the likes of mr cullen could afford to set up his own training facilites,unless a rich owner does it for him. Don't know of any trainers out there with a spare million or two sitting in the back pocket. It's a shame that property prices have become out of reach,as in the past the capital gain on properties was how many trainers kept a positive outlook on what is a hard way to make a living. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, the galah said: a spare million or two sitting in the back pocket. maybe the odd owner or two with spare mill . you would think if place sold you would see a bulldozer would knock the place into shape for housing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invasion of Privacy Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 hours ago, hunterthepunter said: maybe the odd owner or two with spare mill . you would think if place sold you would see a bulldozer would knock the place into shape for housing Wrong, it’s in the flight zone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 24 minutes ago, Invasion of Privacy said: Wrong, it’s in the flight zone Deaf people would buy the sections! So that was the secret weapon they were using! The horses ran on fear, they were shit scared of the planes! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I think this is a great chance for Hayden Cullen,he is well known to the All Stars owners as being a very big part of their success.And with Mark being his advisor and still buying for the owners at sales I dont think too many owners will go elsewhere for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 54 minutes ago, Richie said: I think this is a great chance for Hayden Cullen,he is well known to the All Stars owners as being a very big part of their success.And with Mark being his advisor and still buying for the owners at sales I dont think too many owners will go elsewhere for a while. he only has a open horseman's licence how do you know he will get a trainers licence? as the fuckers turned down a licence to a top lady 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 On 20/11/2020 at 1:23 PM, hunterthepunter said: he only has a open horseman's licence how do you know he will get a trainers licence? as the fuckers turned down a licence to a top lady Unlike her,from what I believe,he has passed all the criteria 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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